USMC M1/Lavs ex in Norway with Leopards vid

[Gman]

At 3:10 in the video, there is a fantastic shot of the M1 and Leo tanks intermixed, it'd be a great screen saver as a still picture.  Very pretty country in the winter.

[Jag34]

NICE video's. Thank you. It brings backs many memory's. 

[DaveBB]

If a round hits the front hull of the M-1,it looks like it would just bounce into the underside of the turret. Or at least damage the turret ring.  Has this happened in combat before?  I known some tank have chains hanging down from the turret to prevent ricochets from the hull into the turret.

[Gman]

That's a good question - maybe Maverick or other x tankers will answer, I'm sure it's not something they just "forgot" about in the design, but I too would like to know the precise explanation behind how that area is protected from frontal shots like that.

[Brooke]

Obsey (one of our Il-2 pilots in the Dnieper scenario) drove tanks.

<S> to tankers!

[GScholz]

Very pretty country in the winter.

Only in pictures. In person it is more like this:

[Brooke]

Only in pictures. In person it is more like this:

  

(I like the winter, though.)

[DaveBB]

Here's a Merkava with chain armor for the turret:

[EskimoJoe]

Chains, to my limited knowledge, act in a similar role as the 'RPG cages' found on MRAPs and if I recall, some LAVs had them too. They're not so much armor for ricochets, but armor against shaped-charges such as those similar to the RPG. The idea is to initiate the charge in the round at a distance that provides a safe standoff for the jet of molten metal from the shape charge to not offer a reasonable amount of penetration, if my wording makes any sense.

So, in theory, the jet of molten metal wont be forced into the vehicle like squeezing a banana in your hand and having it ooze through the gaps in your fingers (at hundreds of feet per second), but instead will lose a lot of its energy and bounce off the vehicle like a banana being thrown at your tile kitchen floor.

Whether or not the chains actually accomplish that, I can't say for certain. There were instances of them on tanks during WWII, but modern examples to my knowledge are very limited.

[Jag34]

Chains, to my limited knowledge, act in a similar role as the 'RPG cages' found on MRAPs and if I recall, some LAVs had them too. They're not so much armor for ricochets, but armor against shaped-charges such as those similar to the RPG. The idea is to initiate the charge in the round at a distance that provides a safe standoff for the jet of molten metal from the shape charge to not offer a reasonable amount of penetration, if my wording makes any sense.

So, in theory, the jet of molten metal wont be forced into the vehicle like squeezing a banana in your hand and having it ooze through the gaps in your fingers (at hundreds of feet per second), but instead will lose a lot of its energy and bounce off the vehicle like a banana being thrown at your tile kitchen floor.

Whether or not the chains actually accomplish that, I can't say for certain. There were instances of them on tanks during WWII, but modern examples to my knowledge are very limited.

I have a little knowledge on armor, I just retired from the Army and was a Tanker for 33 years. Eskimo Joe is right on about the chains. They are for shaped-charge war heads, ie HE, HEAT, HEP and RPG rounds. They will not affect or stop the main anti-armor round, the Kinetic energy penetrator. The SABOT round.

At the turret ring is an armor ring that will stop a shaped-charge war head.

As far as the armored ring stopping a Kinetic energy penetrator, we were told it would. But have never seen first hand if it would.

My 2 cents worth.

[EskimoJoe]

I have a little knowledge on armor, I just retired from the Army and was a Tanker for 33 years. Eskimo Joe is right on about the chains. They are for shaped-charge war heads, ie HE, HEAT, HEP and RPG rounds. They will not affect or stop the main anti-armor round, the Kinetic energy penetrator. The SABOT round.
(Image removed from quote.)
At the turret ring is an armor ring that will stop a shaped-charge war head. (Image removed from quote.)

As far as the armored ring stopping a Kinetic energy penetrator, we were told it would. But have never seen first hand if it would.

My 2 cents worth.

Thanks for the two pennies, Jag! All the armor we get here are a few inches of MRAP with either a cage or a net 

I am wondering, since the chains appear to be only affixed by one end and seem to swing around, how do they prevent a shaped-charge from doing what they do? I imagine due to the shape of the chains, they just 'spatter' the jet instead of allowing it to stream through. Similar to bar armor, but different because of the amount of standoff.

For those that aren't too sure what we're talking about, but curious : A model on how shaped-charges work. Notice the cone on the inside, and how it "inverts" and shoots out as a jet. Science is a crazy thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqMoFx0uwpo

[USCH]

Only in pictures. In person it is more like this:

(Image removed from quote.)

ya, no doubt... winter suck ANYPLACE that has snow. pretty my arse.

[save]

The chains are probably good enough against early HEAT wepaons.

The more sophisticated wepaons use double charged HEAT, one to blow up/away explosives and other "obstacles" and the second to penetrate the main armor.

Even (before they where rebuilt) M1's where penetrated by Russian HEAT weapons during US middle east wars.

Late HEAT weapons hit the vulnerable top.

[Zimme83]

Saudis have lost a bunch of M1A2:s in Yemen, the Kornet ATGM seems fully capable of penetrating the Abrams even in the Turret front. But more modern missiles hit the top of the tank that are easily penetrated.

[GScholz]

Kornet vs. Abrams. Doesn't look good.