Author Topic: loss of members  (Read 28820 times)

Offline lefty2

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: loss of members
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2016, 12:14:22 AM »

Again, you haven't posted any helpful hints/tips on how HTC could bring the numbers up. What are your ideas?



Helpful hints/tips... Advertise and promote simple. Its not rocket science. If you need help look it up on the internet many many ideas.

Offline mikev

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 581
Re: loss of members
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2016, 12:19:31 AM »
Polite conversation is a useful skill. Negativity is contagious.

 :aok
  I remember years ago the old chatrooms. back then some were not monitored and every other word was profound profanity in every sort of way. i believe wil3er has it backwards and people who have to  use that type of language online should realize it is more destructive then constructive. considering the verbal abuse that goes on in ch 200 now i can see what would happen if there was no language filters. i would be to busy squelching players and never get up in the sky so you guys could shoot me down.
1 Of these days you will regret shooting me down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R4qb6_RPUc

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23889
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: loss of members
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2016, 02:56:50 AM »
Helpful hints/tips... Advertise and promote simple. Its not rocket science. If you need help look it up on the internet many many ideas.

But it's not a magic wand  either.
Over the years I have read countless posts of "they just need to advertise more", occasionally with some brilliant 'new' ideas which actually have been tried before.
And failed. Advertisement is a fail when the cost to get new players to subscibe is higher than the averge revenue you get from that subscription. You don't only need to generate interest (which is indeed relatively easy once you put enough money in, but your product must have an appeal enough for people to actually sign on for long enough to cover the advertisement expenses.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:59:22 AM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
Re: loss of members
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2016, 03:31:15 AM »
I've continually said that AH is a niche market game, and by definition attracts an atypical gamer crowd - which isn't a bad thing in most cases.  It's just that in that overall pie of hundreds - literally hundreds of thousands of online WW2 PC gamers out there in the last few years with the usual suspect list of more simplistic games - there ARE players looking for something more than what they currently play (WT) in terms of difficulty of both the game and the skill of opponents.  These, and other new players are what AH3/HTC sure could use and could be fairly easily targeted.  Space games also - Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous also have a large fraction of older more "mature" - whatever that means in this context - players with the $ and the investment in VR and HOTAS controllers already, who obviously want a complex and competitive environment.

Fugitive - I don't disagree, a couple what seems to be simple changes, pulling a few large maps out of the rotation and some other things which many players are convinced should be an easy switch, would make AH2 while we're still playing it a lot better experience.  I think the below response aptly covers it.

Quote
What's the point in that?  Everything's been discussed ad nauseum for years with no action taken by HT.

Also - I sometimes wonder how some people here have decreed that this particular community is more "mature" than that of other games out there - that's pretty ridiculous on every 2nd day, at best.  Perhaps more mature in terms of the digits in the "state your age" column, but nothing more than that.  I've seen equal amounts of "maturity",  even more in some, in a huge swath of other online games.  Taking a look over the past years forums - Skuzzy has had an MG firing 1500rpm lock emoticons with "rule#" tracer rounds mixed in every 2nd round spraying page after page after page.  Any sense of superiority here in the "mature" department is a figment of the imagination.  Does the game require a more dedicated, committed, competitive, and a number of other adjectives type of player?  Yes IMO.  Maturity doesn't enter into it.

IL2's recent games, Rise of Flight, the Falcon BMS community, the DCS community - go check out Eagle Dynamics forum, and compare the amount of moderation required - or perhaps not required depending on opinion - over there.  War Thunder - I think the case can be made that due to the monthly cost involved here that the lions share of the potential "immature" or what have you potential customers there are pretty much abated from the starting gun.


Quote
But it's not a magic wand  either.
Over the years I have read countless posts of "they just need to advertise more", occasionally with some brilliant 'new' ideas which actually have been tried before.
And failed. Advertisement is a fail when the cost to get new players to subscibe is higher than the averge revenue you get from that subscription. You don't even need to generate interest (which is indeed relatively easy once you put enough money in, but your product must have an appeal enough for people to actually sign on for long enough to cover the advertisement expenses.

Very wise post, agreed 100%.  It's not rocket science, but it's no simple matter either.  Whatever HTC has planned with regards to advertising and capturing new players will have had to have had thought, as well as practice, and a lot of both put into it before unleashing the full force of the endeavor.  I said before that there are assets here they could call on in this regard, AckAck for example has worked in the gaming sector, and specifically in gathering intel on competitors for one of the larger game companies around, as well as for CH and so on.  There are others here too, plus I'm sure HTC knows a lot of people over the 17 years they've been around to call on for opinions regarding this, people we'll never hear or know about.

I know HT has mentioned a few times recently how poorly the add campaign and return on investment HTC received during the airing of a really, really well done docu-drama history thing on TV about WW2 aces.  IIRC HT said they got exactly ZERO new adds from that, and it wasn't all that long ago either, certainly since the #'s noticeably dropped from the highs of 2009 or whatever. 

A result like this understandably makes future plans seem to be a very, very dangerous matter if you put yourself in HTCs shoes, and rightfully so IMO.  However, I return to the original premise I've repeated often - along with many others here - PC gaming is on a huge upswing, in hardware, and specifically in interest in online WW2 games, and massively multiplayer games as well.  Finding the right formula in terms of both the new product, and a plan to promote it - I still believe it isn't rocket science, and that if HTC can put together such a product as AH2 and now AH3, they should be able - even if they need to call in some outside support - a plan of action to rapidly draw a lot of new players here.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:51:49 AM by Gman »

Offline FLOOB

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
Re: loss of members
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2016, 04:11:02 AM »
Holy toejam all of you are still talking about Aces High
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans” - John Steinbeck

Offline lefty2

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: loss of members
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2016, 04:48:34 AM »
But it's not a magic wand  either.
Over the years I have read countless posts of "they just need to advertise more", occasionally with some brilliant 'new' ideas which actually have been tried before.
And failed. Advertisement is a fail when the cost to get new players to subscibe is higher than the averge revenue you get from that subscription. You don't only need to generate interest (which is indeed relatively easy once you put enough money in, but your product must have an appeal enough for people to actually sign on for long enough to cover the advertisement expenses.

I understand all that what you do is come up with new ideas, new ad campaign measure the results and use the ones that work. The one thing that you don't do is give up and do virtually nothing to build and support your customer base. I think it's plain to see that this is what's happened and it's a shame. I see in another thread that someone has gone so far as to suggest a charity raffle now how embarrassing is that.

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7321
Re: loss of members
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2016, 06:26:40 AM »
It's not been the same since the zones were removed :old:
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube+Twitch - 20Dolby10


"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline Traveler

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3148
      • 113th Lucky Strikes
Re: loss of members
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2016, 08:22:34 AM »
Get rid of CM and profanity filters, nothing worse than getting muted for saying something only a 90 year old woman would consider profane.  If people are that easily offended, they should not be on the internet.    :old:

Have to disagree with you there.  profanity has no place in any conversation, at any time.  I feel sorry for many of the youth of today who seem unable to express themselves in any situation without the use of it.  I was a combat medic in Vietnam, trust me, I've heard it all.  I believe its use actually diminishes the users message as well as the user in the eyes of most  people that are subjected to the profane rant.
I don’t want to read it, I don’t want to hear it on channel.   113th has been around for a lot of years, here and before AH in AW, it has always had a family friendly rule about the use of profanity.   A lot of people played without using headsets and whatever was said was available for the whole family to hear.  Do you really want your wife or kids exposed to that level of profanity?
Traveler
Executive Officer
113th LUcky Strikes
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/113th_Lucky_Strikes

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: loss of members
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2016, 08:27:22 AM »
It's not been the same since the zones were removed :old:
Didn't they get rid of the zones because we were all complaining about it?? Can't remember, feel like that was 8 years ago.
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11618
      • Trainer's Website
Re: loss of members
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2016, 08:30:40 AM »
Never said anything was negative...  just people need to lighten up.

You said people who are offended shouldn't be on the internet. I consider that negative. Most players don't get muted even though we all know the same words.

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7321
Re: loss of members
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2016, 08:33:58 AM »
Didn't they get rid of the zones because we were all complaining about it?? Can't remember, feel like that was 8 years ago.

They decided to stick all the strats together in 1 point affecting the whole side, rather than each zone.
It took targets away from being spread throughout the map and squished into an isolated point sometimes hundreds of miles from any front. Biggest mistake I thought, no Idea how it came about.
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube+Twitch - 20Dolby10


"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23889
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: loss of members
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2016, 09:02:27 AM »
They decided to stick all the strats together in 1 point affecting the whole side, rather than each zone.
It took targets away from being spread throughout the map and squished into an isolated point sometimes hundreds of miles from any front. Biggest mistake I thought, no Idea how it came about.

Actually introducing the central strats was a *beep* great thing. Just the relocation mechanism was flawed, and it would have been better to keep some 'zone' factories for more short/midrange bombing.
Removing the central strats again, but keeping their individual settings functions was what created a mess in terms of balance & gameplay.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline ONTOS

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: loss of members
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2016, 10:51:36 AM »
I must agree with Traveler, profanity is the lowest form of communication. It serves no purpose only to let people know you are ignorant of proper language. People have got far away from good manners and ethics, it shows the disintegration of our country in one of several ways.  Of course, it is still a free country (so far) and you are aloud free speech. It's a shame that we have sunk so low, that the use of profanity is concerted normal. Many people may think it normal, it is not.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8086
Re: loss of members
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2016, 10:53:41 AM »
I understand all that what you do is come up with new ideas, new ad campaign measure the results and use the ones that work. The one thing that you don't do is give up and do virtually nothing to build and support your customer base. I think it's plain to see that this is what's happened and it's a shame. I see in another thread that someone has gone so far as to suggest a charity raffle now how embarrassing is that.

When the current product's greatest weakness in attracting new players is the graphics, and there's a new version coming out (somewhat) soon that looks better, why on earth would you advertise the old version?  The new one has a much better chance of getting people interested.  Faster would be better, sure, but IMO advertising the current live game would be a bad idea compared to advertising once AH3 goes live.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline FishBait

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: loss of members
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2016, 11:12:57 AM »
I've said it before & I'll say it again, the learning curve of this game is so steep that its vary nature forces new players to resort to 'lame' gameplay & tactics in order to survive. For many, that can be very offputting. I have to assume most new players don't last past the trial period. All they learn is that for $15 they can either be slaughtered like sheep within minutes of upping, or survive solely by hugging ack and joining a horde. What you're left with after most drop out are:  A) the very small minority who have the moxy (or stupidity... not sure which ;)) to put in the work to get some skill in this game, or B) a much larger number of players who find it fun to hide in ack, up in hordes, etc.

I think what we're experiencing now is the direct result of this slow but steady decline in player quality. It's not that they need help they're not getting. It's that they never cared about gaining skill in this game to begin with. I've PM'd many players who I've just killed offering to help them in the DA/TA, and to date not a single one has taken me up on the offer. In my opinion, we're simply not providing a sufficient introduction to the game to keep potentially-valuable players from walking before their trial period ends. What we're left with are the scraps.

I truly believe that if more energy and attention was placed on providing some sort of structured training environment for new players, we'd not only see the gross number of players go up, but along with it an increase in the ratio of quality players to those who are making the game what it is today.
-== Hell Hounds ==- Official Pooper Scooper

I've got 99 problems, but a HO aint one.