Just way too many trees

[iikie]

I can get used to the trees although I agree there are too many in some cases. It appears they got rid of the mounds we used to hide behind and replaced them with a bunch of trees. What really bothers me is the fact they have armor plated leaves. I don't get that at all? In fact you can't even shoot through the objects you can drive through? If a real tank could not put a round through brush they would just scrap them. I have even had numerous incidents where I am next to a bush, my canon barrel is clear by a country mile, and I still can't shoot past the tree or bush, or even a single leaf? To me that is an issue that needs to be resolved.

[bustr]

The tree density for terrain editor default tiles ranges from open grass to partial tree and bushes, to dense trees. It's up to how the terrain builder decided to paint those on. As for tank town, there are as many dense tree areas as open grass areas. And then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use. So it sounds like you are all trying to hide in the dense tree areas while sneeking around through them hiding from each other trying to bushwhack each other, getting nowhere fast because they are dense trees.

If you turn off shadows, its very easy to see other tanks through the tree trunks.

[8thJinx]

Hey, I forgot to mention, I got my first tank kill at 3,000+ yds in AH3 yesterday.

[scott66]

Hey, I forgot to mention, I got my first tank kill at 3,000+ yds in AH3 yesterday.

WTG!

[Condor]

And then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use.

So Bustr, are you saying you would drive a tank down an open road knowing there are enemies around. Can't think of a better way to get killed fast. 

[BigPun]

Yep, normally you would find 10+ players in tank town now maybe 4-5.
GVing is nearly ruined by too many trees and the inability to see incoming rounds.

[redcatcherb412]

then the roads for fast transit which it seems like you guys don't want to use. So it sounds like you are all trying to hide in the dense tree areas while sneeking around through them hiding from each other trying to bushwhack each other, getting nowhere fast because they are dense trees.

Seems you were not in a ground combat unit where your platoon sgt would kick your asz if he caught you walking down a path/trail/road/clearings  etc.  A quick way to die on patrol.  Ambushes are set to catch the lazy who won't slog thru creeks and bogs and flank positions covering clear approaches.

You want trees ?  Here is a pic of my company on the cambodian border in 1968. Seeing a direction where incoming fire is coming from in that terrain is near impossible tracers or not.  Areas like that is where 'spray and pray' is a given and why every swinging charlie carried extra 250rd belts for the m60's.    My C.O. is on the right with the glasses and the handsome young man to his right is myself. 

[bustr]

So Bustr, are you saying you would drive a tank down an open road knowing there are enemies around. Can't think of a better way to get killed fast. 

I'll release my offline gunnery training terrain on Monday with a self installer. I've placed tanks in just about every hiding place on the tank town object feasible. Truning off shadows makes most of them stand out like a sore thumb. Some of the TT issue is you guys really need a clipboard map for that object with elevation topo for the hills, and start marking off the ambush spots. While setting up the TT Hogan's Ally drive through I've gotten lost many times having to use F3 to figure out where I was. Since your tank doesn't have an attached support unit with some kind of a scouting detachment like many tank units did in WW2, Hitech might want to enable F3 mode for tanks since you guys want to play lone wolf GVballing. Or create some new kind of limited scout view for GVs.

Hmmmmm, Since I have access to a TT in the terrain editor I should probably make a map for you gents. I was thinking about including one for the three villages at the south spawn from TT on my terrain. (Most of you will probably bushwack and find the tanks I setup to ambush you for bushwhacking.) Since the terrain builder can lay down the 2milex2mile tank town object in 4 direction orientations, I'll use something like Roy's for the key orientation. Realism sucked for tanks in WW2.

redcathcer,

This is a video game, turn off shadows and much of the hide in trees for tanks is removed. I've bushwhacked Asian bamboo thickets where you had to climb the one lone skinny tree to see over the top and find your way out. Not all bamboo is the same around Asia, depending on the strain of bamboo you can't see 6 inches or you can see 30 yards because of the big green stems. Nor are all forests, especially the palm forest and strangler fig from the terrain editor Pac terrain set. You should see my TT using the Euro terrain tile set with conifers and deciduous. Almost two years ago when Hitech first dropped tank town in the NDisles center island on us, the trees were 120ft tall and so thick you couldn't see a tank 600 yards off the road. He spent a while density testing for FPS and it thinned out the trees and clutter in the process. Shadows are now the real reason you cannot see tanks hiding in the trees 600 yards away. Everywhere you are driving on NDisles, I've driven infinitude during the last 2 years testing including creating my own gunnery training terrain.

[redcatcherb412]

[quote author=bustr link=topic=381404.msg5081009#msg5081009 date=14740473
redcathcer,

This is a video game, turn off shadows and much of the hide in trees for tanks is removed. I've bushwhacked Asian bamboo thickets where you had to climb the one lone skinny tree to see over the top and find your way out. Not all bamboo is the same around Asia, depending on the strain of bamboo you can't see 6 inches or you can see 30 yards because of the big green stems.
[/quote]

I was just commenting on not using the roads no matter how enticing. I think the tree density is fine and have no problems other than the foilage setting off a tank shell like its a leaf proximity fuse.  Once you get used to moving and looking/listening the tree/forest design is great in my opinion.  Having been killed numerous times by 8thjinx who uses a tank with some of the worst optics in these forests you can see it's 80% method compared to 20% visibility.  Again, no problem with the trees or vision in the foilage, really evens the playing field.

[Condor]

Bustr, I'm glad to know we will have your offline gunnery training terrain soon. I'm anxious to try it and appreciate all the work you have put into the game. 

I have to turn off shadows to get decent FPS with my HD 6950 but it doesn't seem to help with seeing tanks in trees. Last night a tank was firing at me from the trees across the road and I could see his rounds but not a trace of his tank. He fired 6 times before he hit me so I had plenty of time to look. I had the tree detail all the way to the left because in any other position the trees shimmer with any movement in my point of view. So the trunks were pretty bare with lots of space between them but no tank. (Object detail slider was all the way to the right.) I'm not saying your observation is wrong but suspect it may be video card related or caused by some other difference in our graphics settings.

[bustr]

Hopefully when I finish my 7zip self extractor file setup, you get a copy of this map file inside of your Maps folder to then manually update from inside the maps application on the clipboard. This map is oriented to how I laid down the TT object on my terrain. The 4pixel brown square in the left quadrant on the road down from the village is Roy's, with the Roy's sign on the front parking area. This was made from the skin viewer object so you can see the areas trees from any of the three tile sets will be. Once you drive around in there, then fly a storch over it, you can make notes about the terrain for your GV sneeking around or ambushes online. I really hope foliage of all kinds hasn't become a get out of jail god mode impervious card now for GVs.

[bustr]

Anyone notice that tank town looks like one of those retirement villages on a golf course in Texas?

[Drane]

Adapted from a song called The Trees by Rush

There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the players want more sunlight
And the trees ignore their pleas
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the players scream 'oppression!'
And the trees, just shake their heads (facepalm)

[iikie]

I do not think it is that there are too many trees really. Some of The trees have long horizontal branches which makes them impossible to drive through and if you happen to rub the branch with the side of your tank you get stuck on it and the next thing you know you are in the middle of three or 4 trees all having those horizontal branches. Then you may as well tower because you are stuck for a very long time. I mean, seriously, in what war ever did a 6" tree branch even slow a tank's roll?
The other tree problem is they have armor plated leaves. (much better than that of your tank.)
With the better GV guys, if you do not kill them with the first shot you will die while you are reloading. I have had many shots where I can see a nice big chunk of the side of a tank, I fire, the round goes right where it is supposed to, then blows up before striking the tank Or hits a leaf and blows up. So he swings his gun while I'm loading and I'm dead. I can't even fire a machine gun through a leaf but a plane has no problem firing through them. Makes no sense. Not being able to shoot beyond some objects was an unresolved problem in AH2 also.
I really badly want to like this game.
It looks great, For the most part it feels great and I am convinced it will be a vast improvement over AH2 in time.
Other than a few issues I think the team that worked on this did a bang up job.
Thanks for listening

[The Fugitive]

I don't think there are too many trees. I just look at them as something to avoid, just like I try to avoid hitting parked cars when I drive mine. Of course I didn't have an issue with bushes flipping tanks in AH2 again, because I avoided them.

I think the biggest complainers are those that like to wheel around and just blast their big guns while they are flying around the battle field. Sorry, I think the game should be a bit more complicated than that.