Engine Sounds

[icepac]

A P51 internally sounds much like driving a 240z with a good muffler.........or any straight six sports car.

[Vraciu]

A P51 internally sounds much like driving a 240z with a good muffler.........or any straight six sports car.

I would guess it has a thrum rather that a rasp.

[Chalenge]

Real:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9OaFqo5aaI&t=289s

https://youtu.be/-PVwmkobFuc?t=9m45s

Aces High 3 (current):

https://youtu.be/-PVwmkobFuc?t=9m45s

But hey, your friend is your friend. Go with that.

[Vraciu]

Real:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9OaFqo5aaI&t=289s

https://youtu.be/-PVwmkobFuc?t=9m45s

Aces High 3 (current):

https://youtu.be/-PVwmkobFuc?t=9m45s

But hey, your friend is your friend. Go with that.

How much time do you have in P-51s?   Just curious.

I will take his ears (and hundreds of Mustang hours) over any recording.    I've yet to find an accurate recording taken by a handheld of any airplane that I've flown.   

That said, the video sounds nothing like the game.   It's much deeper.   Less raspy.   Has a different beat/cadence (for lack of a better word).   I'd take that recording over what we have now. 

[Chalenge]

Neither mine, nor your friends experience in any aircraft has anything to do with it. I certainly do not trust your opinion concerning sounds in comparison to my own experience. If it were me I would record the interior of aircraft with my own equipment. I have already done this on a number of occasions. Tanks, airplanes, guns, . . . and I know why some recordings sound differently from aircraft to game. I know that most pilots in WWII fighters fly with their ears just inches from the canopy. A microphone in that situation is going to record the canopy more than it is the engine. However, neither you, your friend, or myself can tell what the airplane would sound like without that noise in close proximity to your ear. In fact, I would dispute that your friend ever heard it at all. You see, most people wear some form of hearing protection, and in that event even a microphone that is recording primarily noise interference patterns is still more accurate than what you thought you heard.

I trust my equipment and recording abilities much, much further than anyone's opinion.

[Vraciu]

I have taken my headset and helmet off in every plane I've flown.   It's something you do at least once if for no other reason than to experience it. 

The game should sound the way our ears hear it not as some gadget that gets it wrong for having too little--or too much--fidelity.

I trust his opinion.   

Call me when you've flown a Mustang and we can discuss further. 

I don't intend to be baited into a Rule #4 so I am through parlaying.   In any event, someone will produce a custom sound pack that will address express concerns and we can all take our pick.  That's one beauty of this game.

Happy New Year. 

[Chalenge]

Call me when you have a valid point, as recording devices are much, much more accurate than you are claiming. In fact, at this point I'm betting that it is your audio equipment leading you to believe this. So, your argument is invalid all the way across the board.

[icepac]

Merlin really sounds more like a ford inline six truck engine with an open and uncollected exhaust than a Z car engine but mostly because the Z engine runs upwards of 7000rpms.

Straight sixes and V12s have perfect primary and secondary balance though collection of the cylinders (or none at all) will have some effect on sound.

What most videos miss is the thunderous bottom end sound that comes from making big power that you only experience at unlimited hydroplane races of the past.

At the same RPMs but making very little power, you lose that thunder and the merlin sounds pretty sedate........largely because of a very low compression ratio.

Now prop choice and supercharger type also have an effect on aero engine sound.

[Vraciu]

Call me when you have a valid point, as recording devices are much, much more accurate than you are claiming. In fact, at this point I'm betting that it is your audio equipment leading you to believe this. So, your argument is invalid all the way across the board.

You're using a second-rate video to disprove my point.   So which is it?

You have never flown a Mustang.  I will trust the man with hundreds of hours who says the AH3 sound is not correct. 

/thread

[Vraciu]

Merlin really sounds more like a ford inline six truck engine with an open and uncollected exhaust than a Z car engine but mostly because the Z engine runs upwards of 7000rpms.

Straight sixes and V12s have perfect primary and secondary balance though collection of the cylinders (or none at all) will have some effect on sound.

What most videos miss is the thunderous bottom end sound that comes from making big power that you only experience at unlimited hydroplane races of the past.

At the same RPMs but making very little power, you lose that thunder and the merlin sounds pretty sedate........largely because of a very low compression ratio.

Now prop choice and supercharger type also have an effect on aero engine sound.

Sounds about right.  Pun intended. 

Happy New Year, ice.

[Chalenge]

You're using a second-rate video to disprove my point.   So which is it?

You have never flown a Mustang.  I will trust the man with hundreds of hours who says the AH3 sound is not correct. 

/thread

No, I'm using firsthand experience in recording audio. You are using anecdotal evidence to claim a superior knowledge level that you do not actually have. You also attempted to redefine logic. Good luck with that.

The video of "Lucky Lady" was recorded with a Sony NEX VG10 with a VG50 microphone which has a maximum SPL of 100, which is lower than I would prefer, but more than adequate for getting an accurate recording. Like I said, the canopy is going to cause EQ problems especially for the GoPro type cameras, but whether you "take your headgear off" or not makes no difference; it's loud in the cockpit. Is the guy a professional cameraman? No. I, and any sensible person would still put more confidence in his work than your anecdotal opinions.

That's evidence and logic in a nutshell.

[Vraciu]

No, I'm using firsthand experience in recording audio. You are using anecdotal evidence to claim a superior knowledge level that you do not actually have. You also attempted to redefine logic. Good luck with that.

The video of "Lucky Lady" was recorded with a Sony NEX VG10 with a VG50 microphone which has a maximum SPL of 100, which is lower than I would prefer, but more than adequate for getting an accurate recording. Like I said, the canopy is going to cause EQ problems especially for the GoPro type cameras, but whether you "take your headgear off" or not makes no difference; it's loud in the cockpit. Is the guy a professional cameraman? No. I, and any sensible person would still put more confidence in his work than your anecdotal opinions.

That's evidence and logic in a nutshell.

No, it's your academic theory vs real world experience.   I will go with experience (including over 10,000 hours of my own).   

Funny enough...  Your "accurate" video, if taken at face value, proves the OP's point (and mine), namely: the game sound is "off".

Irony, why are you so delicious?

Batter up!

[bustr]

Are you recording what the pilot hears with his head set on, or are you asking that the sound be what you hear without the headset on?

Has anyone put a pickup inside of the ear cover while it's on your head to record what you are really hearing? Are there any single engine warbird pilots who don't fly the thing without ear covers? Then back to the friend who fly's P51's, which sound condition is he describing? Also sound will be perceived as more intense in the presence of strong vibrations effecting your body. Your memory of the sound experience will be to unconsciously include that full body vibration phenomenon when you try to describe the sound.

It's very similar to the difference when you run a skill saw without shooting muffs on then put them on and run the saw again. The aviation head set has to dampen out external sound so you can understand the tower chatter from the tiny speakers in the ear pieces. Back to the question, has anyone put a pickup in an ear piece to record what the pilot really hears?

It sounds like the argument is, damned reality I want to hear what I hear when I take the head set off........

[Vraciu]

Are you recording what the pilot hears with his head set on, or are you asking that the sound be what you hear without the headset on?

Has anyone put a pickup inside of the ear cover while it's on your head to record what you are really hearing? Are there any single engine warbird pilots who don't fly the thing without ear covers? Then back to the friend who fly's P51's, which sound condition is he describing? Also sound will be perceived as more intense in the presence of strong vibrations effecting your body. Your memory of the sound experience will be to unconsciously include that full body vibration phenomenon when you try to describe the sound.

It's very similar to the difference when you run a skill saw without shooting muffs on then put them on and run the saw again. The aviation head set has to dampen out external sound so you can understand the tower chatter from the tiny speakers in the ear pieces. Back to the question, has anyone put a pickup in an ear piece to record what the pilot really hears?

It sounds like the argument is, damned reality I want to hear what I hear when I take the head set off........

That may be his argument.   You'll have to ask him.

My contention is that either way (modeled with or without a headset) the sound needs tweaking.   At a minimum the tone is off.   The Mustang in the game sounds like a lawn mower.    I'm simply agreeing with the OP.

I could care less honestly.  As soon as a custom sound pack comes out I am replacing it.    Let the "experts" keep the lawn mower sound if they want.  I won't.

[Chalenge]

Do you know of anyone working on a sound pack? hehe, I do.