Author Topic: Oroville dam spillway!  (Read 1658 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 12:29:37 PM »
Kind of deceptive statement.  The only perfectly safe dam is one that costs an infinite amount of money to "finish": http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/precarious-oroville-dam-highlights-challenges-california-water-management

No deception about it. The dam was never finished. They said that the dam as designed was never finished......
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Offline ROC

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 12:49:58 PM »
I happen to live downstream.  I wasn't concerned with the spillway failing.  The main concern is the erosion on the mountain itself under the emergency overflow.  That section to the left of the actual dam.  The dam is 20 feet higher than the section on the left.  Water came over that area for the first time ever since the dam was completed.  The water coming down the hill is eroding the actual hill itself.  Huge concern about the pressure from the max capacity lake behind it.  If that system crumbles, mind you it's not the dam that fails, its the HILL next to it, then a 30 foot wall of water hits and even us here in Sacramento are going to get our feet wet.
Now, this morning, they are "fixing" the problem.  They are filling the holes that eroded with concrete and rocks.  My concern, that isn't going to fix the problem of further erosion around those new patches.
This condition was pointed out in a 2005 lawsuit and is unfolding exactly as was described.  There is talk that the concrete cap over the lip of the emergency overflow would protect the top of the hill when the water poured over.  They are right, but it doesn't protect where the water hits the dirt immediately underneath.
Now, that spillway, the concrete one that came apart first, that soil eroded under the concrete spillway and then the concrete collapsed.  That entire hill is unstable and eroding.
Oh, side note, that massive dam is anchored into that same hill.
Concerned?  I am, and I have been active in the levee upgrade program here in the valley since the mid 90s and am very familiar with the infrastructure, live in an area surrounded by close levees and water, a virtual island, and this is the first and only time in m 35 years here I am concerned about flooding.  I can't take my eyes off this hill.



Here, they are plugging holes.  Concern is the soil eroding around the plugs


Dam to the right, Concrete spillway to the left is what initially blew apart by the soil underneath eroding away, there was a cavity under the concrete, it blew apart.  To the left, that's the lower emergency overflow. That concrete wall is sound, the soil below it, down the mountain, and under the spillway, that's coming apart. 

« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 12:55:52 PM by ROC »
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2017, 01:01:03 PM »
The flow over the emergency spillway was around 10% of what they had estimated as a maximum flow....
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline ROC

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2017, 01:04:48 PM »
Yes Zimmy, it started coming apart before the system even got going.  There is a great deal of soil to move, the chances of that entire hill coming down is negligible, but the part that blows will still generate a great deal of water downstream.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2017, 04:01:35 PM »
The flow over the emergency spillway was around 10% of what they had estimated as a maximum flow....

Actually the spillway was running at about 10 percent capacity (capacity 250,000 cfs) when the concrete gave way.

The so called "emergency" spillway is not that at all. It was originally designed as a secondary spillway but was never finished.

It is now refered to as the "emergency" spillway since it was not finished they hope to never need it..... except in absolute emergency.

The spillway that fell apart at much lower than designed flow caused them to never let it flow over 100,000 cfs. It should have moved 250,000 cfs.

They were totally at the mercy of mother nature and had nothing else they could do. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
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Offline OldNitro

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2017, 05:26:58 PM »
Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.

Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!

Same one?


« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 05:28:43 PM by OldNitro »

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2017, 05:48:06 PM »
Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.

Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!

Same one?

I do not believe they have had any issues with this dam prior to this event.
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Offline palef

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2017, 06:04:54 PM »
Spider truck,
Spider truck,
Doing whatever a Spider truck does...
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2017, 05:56:03 PM »
Is this the same dam, that was having percolation problems years ago?
I read about it a long time ago, but the story faded over time, so forgot about it.

Water was seeping under the structure, thru the adjacent soil/rock, coming out
near the foot of the dam. Like artesian wells spouting up from nowhere. Scary!

Same one?

That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently.  ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out.  It was and probably still is touch and go there.
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Offline OldNitro

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2017, 07:00:31 PM »
That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently.  ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out.  It was and probably still is touch and go there.

No, definitely the USA, pre 9/11.
Like back in 90's man.

LOL, I'm kind of an old guy, that was just yesterday!

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2017, 09:31:18 AM »
That was probably a dam in Iraq I read about recently.  ISIS took over a city and it stopped getting the maintenance it needs to not collapse until they were kicked back out.  It was and probably still is touch and go there.

The  Mosul dam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam


Edit: But there is also the Teton dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teton_Dam that collapsed back in 1976.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 09:32:58 AM by Zimme83 »
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Offline OldNitro

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2017, 09:43:26 AM »
The  Mosul dam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam


Edit: But there is also the Teton dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teton_Dam that collapsed back in 1976.

Yeah, I might be conflating these two in my mind.

Offline KCDitto

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2017, 09:12:47 PM »
ROC is very concerned..... I know where he lives and now he is putting all the "GOOD STUFF" in the upstairs room.   :x

Does your Porsche have the U-BOAT option?   :rofl

All joking aside,

Want to read something real scary, research the California Budget and see where the money went that was allocated to "REPAIRING" that damn....  :bhead
Ditto  "WHITE 11"
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Offline ROC

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2017, 10:34:00 PM »
Quote
Want to read something real scary, research the California Budget and see where the money went that was allocated to "REPAIRING" that damn....
Already did, pushing back against this stuff is what I do for a living lol :)  Don't want to get the thread locked so, walking away from that one.

As for the u-boat option, I've got the porsche and mustang sandbagged, the bmw and living room might get wet but hey, got the important stuff handled!
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline KCDitto

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Re: Oroville dam spillway!
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2017, 11:24:00 PM »
Already did, pushing back against this stuff is what I do for a living lol :)  Don't want to get the thread locked so, walking away from that one.

As for the u-boat option, I've got the porsche and mustang sandbagged, the bmw and living room might get wet but hey, got the important stuff handled!

That is why I did not post it   :D

Good to hear you are set. Had some friends get evacuated from their home, they are back now and did not get looted like so many others did. Sad that criminals take advantage of that. I heard that it is legal to shoot looters?
Ditto  "WHITE 11"
"Masters of the Air" Scenario -JG54