Author Topic: A question about scoring in scenarios  (Read 834 times)

Offline oboe

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A question about scoring in scenarios
« on: March 05, 2017, 04:12:38 PM »
Are they always fixed scores? That is, for example 3 pts per object destroyed, 1 pt per planes shot down, etc?

I am wondering if the scoring value has ever been modified by a factor that addresses the side numbers imbalance?
We always want walkons to be able to fly for a side they want (I think its important to keep that to keep people committed to flying in scenarios).  But this can lead to a favorable side advantage of one side over the other.

Say in a scenario frame its 39 Allied pilots against 32 Axis.  Would it be workable to modify a target's point value by the ratio between the side numbers?  So a 3pt target value be modified to equal (3 x 32/39) for the Allies and (3 x 39/32) for the Axis to reflect the tougher challenge for the lower numbered side?   

Just wondering if something like that has ever been tried...

Offline Vudu15

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 04:15:08 PM »
You'd have to run that by Brooke he may or not do something like that. Most likely he'd just say we need to recruit more.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 08:35:33 PM »
In general, it's hard to have something like that for two reasons, one of them being like what Vudu said.

First, is that you would remove the incentive to recruit to fill your side.  If you can win just as easily no matter how many players show, why put in the large amount of work required for successful recruiting?  Also, design is yet more difficult when you can't plan for any particular numbers.

Second is that you could incentivize playing games with numbers in extreme cases.  We do need to keep in mind extreme cases in scenarios, as there have been examples many years back with teams pushing extremes.  What if, instead of having 40 players that average out to a typical skill level, you can get 15 awesome players and discourage participation by average and less-skilled players.  We don't want any incentivization of things like that.

In this particular scenario, the design, when full, is 46 pilots on the allied side (38 fighters, 8 bombers) vs. 40 fighters on the axis side (40 fighters, 0 bombers).   The design ratio of axis:allied pilots is thus 0.87 and not 1.0.  It is not a symmetric design.  The allies have bomber pilots that the axis doesn't, and scoring was designed to take that into account (which we discussed a lot on the design topic).

When I assign walkons, job 1 is achieving the design ratio.  If I can do that and achieve side preference, I do that.  But if more people want a side than works for balance, they don't get their choice.  That's one of the disadvantages of not registering -- you are not guaranteed the side you want, and you are not guaranteed any particular plane type.  Assigning walkons is complicated by people coming into and out of the arena (so numbers fluctuate some), by some walkons not following instructions, and by it being hectic to get everything assigned within about a 10-minute period.  (You have to wait until a little after 12:00 for people to get into arena, then you lock, then you need to assign as fast as possible to give sides time to get people sorted and briefed -- combined with being pelted with "let me in" requests all the while.)  Achieving the designed balance within a couple of people is at the upper level of what is possible as judged by about 100 past frames worth of assigning walkons.

In frame 1, the ratio was 0.86, so nearly spot on.  In frame 2, when I was done assigning walkons, it was 37 to 32, a ratio also of 0.86.  In frame 2, you can see that two people showed up late after I assigned walkons, making it 39 to 32 by the logs.  So the axis was two pilots short of the ratio in frame 2.

In frame 3, if we get enough walkons, I will purposefully overassign to the axis side by a couple, to err on the side of achieving 0.87 for axis.

Offline oboe

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 08:24:21 AM »
OK, well it sounds like this is an idea that had been thought of and ruled out in the past?   Thanks for your response, Brooke!




Offline JunkyII

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 09:27:27 AM »
OK, well it sounds like this is an idea that had been thought of and ruled out in the past?   Thanks for your response, Brooke!
I'd like to point out that the bombers scoring was nerfed prior to this scenario running. As Allied CO I made it very clear I was alright with any change the Axis wanted prior.
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Offline oboe

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 10:07:36 AM »
Thanks JunkyII, and I should be clear I'm not talking about this scenario in particular, although the score from the past frame made me ponder scoring methods in general, and wonder if any kind of handicap to scoring as ever been used in a scenario. 

To tell the truth I didn't pay close enough attention to the rules to realize the Axis force is smaller by design, and I thank Brooke for pointing that out.  I think I just assumed scenarios were designed to have equal numbers on sides,  and any imbalance must be cause by no shows.   And of course no shows are to be expected since real world conflicts can often intervene with a players plans.

Also to be clear, I'm not trying to drive any kind of change to the scoring of this scenario - I think it needs to play out as designed.  I think that would be true in virually every case.

The recent results just piqued my interest in scoring design strategies is all.


Offline Shuffler

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Re: A question about scoring in scenarios
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 04:45:49 PM »
I personally do not care about the score of the scenario. I never have. The kills are per side are interesting.

I generally do as I am directed and if it works, so be it. If not.... I hope I got a kill or two.
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