Author Topic: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott  (Read 2499 times)

Offline Gman

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2017, 08:32:41 PM »
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned.  AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2.  It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous.  Predator to the rescue again.

Vraciu - the other people besides Bodhi here - Todd Lemieux, I grew up with him, he is the CEO of Vintage Wings Canada(Chairman now), owns several Warbirds, and a Citabria I've posted vid of us flying in here before.  VWC has a fleet of a dozen or so WW2 a/c under his control.  I got the original video and story on the 109s from BoB I posted from his Facebook page, Vintage Canada had done business many times with Connie over the years.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 08:38:36 PM by Gman »

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2017, 08:52:02 PM »
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned.  AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2.  It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous.  Predator to the rescue again.

Vraciu - the other people besides Bodhi here - Todd Lemieux, I grew up with him, he is the CEO of Vintage Wings Canada(Chairman now), owns several Warbirds, and a Citabria I've posted vid of us flying in here before.  VWC has a fleet of a dozen or so WW2 a/c under his control.  I got the original video and story on the 109s from BoB I posted from his Facebook page, Vintage Canada had done business many times with Connie over the years.

Context is everything.   All things being equal in a 1 v 1 he thinks the 109--or at least the Buchon--is superior to the P-51/Spit.   He has more time in all of them combined than probably anyone still alive.   He is not speaking from a viewpoint of ignorance.    (I also believe Galland preferred the 109 to the Spit despite his jab at Goering.)

Connie Edwards was flying these airplane's nearly fifty years before Todd Lemieux was even born...    Were it not for Edwards (and the other CAF founders) many would be frying pans now.

And if you don't think mock dogfights in real life warbirds occur then you're misinformed.    They do, and opinions vary as to which is better than which.

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« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:08:18 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2017, 09:08:58 PM »
Connie specifically said the P51/Spit is "not going to shoot you down" due to the 109's superlatives as already mentioned.  AFAIK, the only time people shot at each other in WW2 warbirds as discussed was IN WW2.  It's obvious he's referring to WW2 fights and performance, since most guys don't go around shooting at one another in their civvie owned warbirds - that is in no way disingenuous.  Predator to the rescue again.

He also said he got "shot down" 72 times in the Spit9 and 128 times in the 109 during the production of the film. That he wasn't actually shot down in any of them is obvious to everyone but you. And he says "the 109 over here" obviously referencing to one of the Buchons, not a wartime 109. Again obvious. If the Luftwaffe had Buchons in 1940 Bruv would be speaking German for sure.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2017, 09:11:17 PM »
Yes, I realize there could be mock fights, that's a LOT different than what Connie said though isn't it, and that's my POINT.  He referrenced, specifically, that the Spits/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 in the circumstances he was discussing, that's plainly obvious, and the root of my comment - others with just as much time as Connie, even vets who flew the 109 IN the war, have disagreed with what he said in the clip.  I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too. 

"Shot down 72 times", as in 72 different film takes of blowing smoke, spinning/etc, simulating being shot down for the film, that was a completely different part of the clip than when he described the advantage he felt the 109 had over the allied fighters.  Again, he specifically said that the Spit/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 due to its high speed turn performance and, that in climb rate that it could outclimb both by 2000fpm+.  It's plainly obvious that when referring how 3 WW2 fighters perform in combat in the "shoot down" sentence, specifically talking about who can shoot who down, he was talking about the war.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:16:34 PM by Gman »

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2017, 09:13:40 PM »
Yes, I realize there could be mock fights, that's a LOT different than what Connie said though isn't it, and that's my POINT.  He referrenced, specifically, that the Spits/51 couldn't shoot down the 109 in the circumstances he was discussing, that's plainly obvious, and the root of my comment - others with just as much time as Connie, even vets who flew the 109 IN the war, have disagreed with what he said in the clip.  I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too.

Context is everything.  He may have used a wrong word (aileron over elevator for example) but he clearly thinks the 109 can outclimb and outturn the Mustang.   Some dispute the latter--but most don't.  Again, context matters.  (A good interviewer would have followed up for the sake of clarity.  Still, the following is pretty solid.)

"Given pilots of equal ability...[the Mustang will lose]."

I am not one to doubt Edwards' veracity--or expertise.    His opinion is as valid, if not more so, than any other.    He certainly speaks with more authority on this subject than a geologist with 100 hours in a T-28.   

One thing is for sure, the guy has lived quite a life. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:34:54 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2017, 09:49:00 PM »
I can link in 10 quotes from books written from 109 pilots that have info which disputes what Edwards said, videos too.

109 pilots who flew the Buchon? Obviously not. Edwards only has experience with the Buchon so that what he's basing his opinions on. Again obvious.

Equally obvious is your attempt to distance yourself from your original accusation against him:

"Connie was a little koo koo for Coco Puffs with some of his statements, discussed this in the past thread a couple years back, I'll try and find it - he claimed the 109s could climb at 6k fpm and some other questionable stuff."

A Buchon climbing "6k fpm" is not at all "questionable stuff," especially since he actually claimed 5,800 ft/min in the video. That's only 233 ft/min more than a fully loaded Buchon. Nor is Edwards "koo koo for Coco Puffs" in any way.
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Offline JimmyC

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2017, 11:51:34 PM »


The original movie was not that good, either.   Decent.   But not great.

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Offline BBQsam

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 04:09:35 AM »
"Repeat Please......."


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« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 04:14:39 AM by BBQsam »
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2017, 05:34:27 AM »
Silience!!! In Polish!!
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2017, 10:04:05 AM »
Repeat Please...

Silence--in Polish!

"Repeat Please......."


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Oh, God's...truth...
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2017, 11:02:31 AM »
Michael Caine has always been a great actor.   Good sequence...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SkFkwLNucyM
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2017, 12:42:02 PM »
If they have the original film stock a lot can be done to freshen up the movie. Clean up the film and colors and use a more modern grade. Faster action cuts with more aggressive sound effects and score. Some guy on the internet cut various scenes from BoB to match the sound of The Sky Crawlers, a Japanese anime. Imagine what someone like Ridley Scott could do...

https://youtu.be/oEL6ujmemDE?t=354
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2017, 03:07:39 PM »
Faster cuts give me ADD. 

Try fewer. 

Count the cuts here...   Perhaps the best arse chewing ever filmed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOGl_7a2nWU

Heck, the title scene in SINGIN' IN THE RAIN only had seven.   Today it would be half as long and have 37.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w40ushYAaYA
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:23:14 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Battle of Britiain movie remake: Director Riddley Scott
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2017, 12:10:41 AM »
Getting back to the topic at hand..
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