It's coming this August...

[Devil 505]

Nowotny was also vulched by a Pony.

[Guppy35]

Agreed.  No Mk Vs. We don't need no stinking metal ailerons!  Lets just fly it and have some fun 

[bozon]

bahh 110...
give me more Stukas.
MOAR STUKA I SAY! ! 
 

[swareiam]

bahh 110...
give me more Stukas.
MOAR STUKA I SAY! ! 
 

I'll fly a Stuka!

[Crash Orange]

Krusty. You've been flying these events for a long time right? You got the market cornered on that or something? I'll ask again as someone that has also flown a frame or two in my time. How many times has the RAF won a BoB? Hell how many FRAMES of ANY BoB have they won? The answers are never and maybe never. And you think things just aren't a little bit off? Really?

If the same scenario is run 10+ times and the same side wins every time, it seems pretty obvious that there's a BIG problem with the balance.

I don't think the problem is the pane set (although the Ju-88s should go), it's the objectives/scoring. Same as the last one - good matchups, but the results of the fights mean nothing because the scoring is so skewed one side will always win even if it loses.

As for "the Allies had an unfair advantage last time so the Axis should this time," that's just silly. Anyway half the people planning on flying probably haven't decided which side to fly on yet.

[ROC]

This event is going to be different than the typical scenario, it will be constructed like the original 12 hour event  that Nefarious designed. If you remember the first 12 hour event, you know how that worked out.   

[Beefcake]

This event is going to be different than the typical scenario, it will be constructed like the original 12 hour event  that Nefarious designed. If you remember the first 12 hour event, you know how that worked out.   

That scenario was HIGHLY unfair, it came down to the last bomber mission of the event. Scenario's need to be decided well before the end, IMO we need some change-ups.

The Allies should get Spit 14 & 16s along with Tempests and Mossie's, the Axis should only get He111's and 109E's, that would be fair to the Allies. Also the He111's should be restricted to 50kg bombs only while the hardness is set at 50k per object and radar should be enabled for the Allied side all across Germany (IE Satellites).


----------------

Ok on a more serious note IIRC the first 3 or 4 BoBs we ran the Allies won. I think it was BoB 08 when the Axis finally claimed victory and they won again in BoB 13. The other thing is yes the 110 is a good aircraft in BoB but it's not the plane that makes it dangerous it's the pilot.

In HoH Bruv was deadly in the Temp, scoring 25% of the Allied kills in frame 1-3, while in frame 4 when he was gone the Temps didn't slaughter like they did. Was it the pilot or the plane? Point is we shouldn't ban aircraft just because a good pilot wants to fly it, you just have to deal with it.

As an AH BoB Veteran  I can somewhat agree with removing or limiting the Ju88s as they're faster than alllied fighters and even axis escorts. Plus the 88 is an old model and I like the new He111s in my screenshots. 

















I respect all our event designers and after being the Allied Bomber CO for Target For Today I trust that Nef and ROC will create something fun for everyone. I mean like ROC says TFT came down to line and in all honestly I thought we lost that one. Despite the Axis at one time being down 5-1 in pilots at the beginning they almost won it and IIRC it was close at the end.

[Guppy35]

Send em all.  I'd kill to see a sky filled with 110s, 88s, 87s, 111s and 109Es.   I don't care if the odds are 5-1 for the Luftwaffe.  I want to be in a 602 Spit diving into that mess to 'break em up".

It would be totally immersive if the sky was full of Luftwaffe birds.

Sadly I fear we won't be able to fill enough seats for that.

[bozon]

I am torn bdetween flying a Stuka and flying a hurricane.
I meam stukas are cool, but they have just two forwrd stapler guns while the hurry has 8 - you kill the enemy by making his FE crash from all the tracer smoke particles....
 

[shotgunneeley]

What are we setting out to do - a 12 hour "Hardest Day" August 18th, 1940 scenario? I don't like the talk about including more/less of an aircraft type or artificially skewing conditions to give one or another more of an edge. Scenarios should be created to generate an atmosphere most similar to history in terms of setting, objectives and tools at hand - but freely allow for each side to determine how to use those assets as if they were in control of history.


I've been reading up on this pretty hard, very insightful to both sides.
https://www.amazon.com/Hardest-Day-Battle-Britain-August/dp/1844258203/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492053795&sr=8-1&keywords=the+hardest+day


From what I've read as to the aircraft AVAILABLE at the time of the battle, it would be fun to see an immersive spread like this:
Allies: 60% Hurricane Is, 30% Spitfire Is, and 10% single/empty Boston MkIIIs (substituting for Bristol Blenheim interceptors).
Axis: 35% Bf-109Es, 20% He-111 formations, 20% single Ju-88s (with 20x50kg bombs only), 15% Ju-87 stukas (1x250kg and 4x50kg bombs), 10% Bf-110C fighter destroyers.

I feel the Axis should have a slight advantage in total numbers as the attackers, but for gameplay purposes I don't know what a good ratio would be (60-40?)

I ask for the Ju-88 as the most likely candidate to substitute for the Do-17 in both physical resemblance and loadout capacity (and yes historically there were Ju-88s present). I've noted them to be singles so as to offset their more advanced speed for the period skewing their effectiveness. A contingent of Ju-87 stukas is an absolute must in terms of participating in the battle. I for one would be perfectly happy to fly one the entire time - just got to use them in a manner to deliver ordinance without being intercepted.

All aircraft should take off with 100% fuel (with drop tanks being optional).

Historically the first German raid was built up and launched just prior to lunch time and the entire engagement lasted into the night (with the British launching their own limited night bombing raid that evening). I propose the game time clock run from 1100 hours to 2300 hours. Targets I figure should be prioritized as airfields and ports lying south-east of London. Would be a cool culmination to the event with a night raid over London.

I'd vote that field objects stay down for the duration of the event once destroyed with a large number of bases being included as potential targets as opposed to time-regenerating objects over fewer allowable target bases. Hangars, fuel, radar, ordinance bunkers (and possibly barracks) in addition to ground guns are the only viable targets to bomb. Axis gain "X" amount of points per object destroyed by the end of the event, Allies gain the same amount of points per object saved by the end of the event.

That's the majority of my thoughts. Highly looking forward to participating no matter what role I find myself in. 


 

[Guppy35]

They most definitely were not flying Blenheim's against the raids during the day.  They may have been listed in an order of battle but they weren't involved as 10 percent of the defenders.   

Spits and Hurri's.  We don't have Defiants  and they were in and dead so fast they really wouldn't mean much anyway.

[shotgunneeley]

They most definitely were not flying Blenheim's against the raids during the day.  They may have been listed in an order of battle but they weren't involved as 10 percent of the defenders.   

Spits and Hurri's.  We don't have Defiants  and they were in and dead so fast they really wouldn't mean much anyway.

You're right - I was kind of lumping Bristol Blenheims and Defiants all into one package with the light Boston mkIII idea. I suppose if the scenario ended with a night phase they could have a presence as a night interceptor, but I think the primary use of any Blenheim squadron was to drop a few bombs with little effect on German bases at the end of the August 18th action. I know 10% seems like a stretch even taking the total availability of Blenheim fighters/bombers and Defiants into account, but I figured anything less would make it not worthwhile to pursue as a feature in the event. I fully acknowledge that the backbone of the RAF defence lies with the Hurricanes and Spitfires, I just thought there might be enough of a case to allow for a small portion of the defenders to fly "Blenheims".

The following passages are quoted from Battle of Britain: The Hardest Day by Alfred Price (First American Edition, 1980)

Pg. 22
The last of the types in the Fighter Command order of battle, the twin-engined two-seat Bristol Blenheim, had a maximum speed of only 285 mph and took about 13 minutes to reach 20,000 feet. When the Blenheim had first gone into service as a bomber three years earlier, in 1937, such a performance had been considered impressive enough for some of these machines to be modified and issued to fighter squadrons. In this role the Blenheim carried five Browning machine guns firing forwards and a single Vickers gun in the rear turret for self defence. By the summer of 1940 the Blenheim was clearly no match for any of the German fighters and in Fighter Command it was relegated to the night fighter squadrons where its long endurance was of value - it could fly patrols lasting more than four hours. In the summer of 1940 some of the Blenheims were fitted with the first primitive airborne interception radar sets. A few Blenheims were also operated by Coastal Command as long-range fighters and, from time to time during the Battle of Britain, these would become embroiled in combat with German aircraft

Pg. 117
In addition, two Hurricanes took off to intercept flown by pilots of the Fighter Interceptor Unit from Tangmere. Formed to conduct trials with the new and highly secret airborne radar sets, the FIU had lost all its Blenheim night fighters during the attack on Tangmere two days earlier. While waiting for new aircraft the unit had borrowed a couple of Hurricanes from the airfield's resident fighter squadrons and its pilots now went into action in these. Also, at the Coastal Command airfield at Thorney Island, No 235 Squadron prepared to send up a Flight of Blenheim fighters to assist in the defence.