Pitch Ladder ...

[Dawger]

See Rule #4

[Vraciu]

See Rule #4

[Dawger]

See Rule #4

[Vraciu]

I am smart enough to understand that the millisecond saved by having the HUD pitch ladder displayed is an important advantage.

It is also the reason I own several power tools and reading glasses.

I could get by without them but the time saved is to my advantage.

I fly other software that doesn't have a pitch ladder. The graphics in the others are a couple generations ahead of AH, approaching photo realistic and there are still instances where the pitch ladder would have been of great benefit.

The pitch ladder is a substitute for much of the missing physical cues available in the real world, just like so many other things. It is certainly possible to get along with out it but it is a nice extra for beginners and a real advantage for a veteran smart enough to turn it on.

I agree it's a help to a noob.  Having played this game (and WBs) for a decade it is just clutter to me.    I'm getting my cues other ways.   If it works for you then great.   Perhaps I'm missing out by keeping it off, I don't know.     

Everyone is different.   Use what works for you.

Now if I could ever use TrackIR without feeling like I'm getting airsick I'd be onto something.   The head movement doesn't match my own and it's REALLY disconcerting.

[morfiend]

Agree with you for the most part.  I don't think side glances are required here or in real life but they obviously help. 

  If this is the case they why do they put reference frames on the wings of high performance aerobatic aircraft?


  Personally the pitch ladder is a nonfactor for me,I turned it off right away,but that doesnt mean it doesnt have value.Mouse fliers likely could benefit from it as well as new players with little or no experience. It may even be a useful tool for training,although I have never attempted to do this myself!


   Not sure what all the fuss is about,likely just the voices in the crowd that need to be heard,but since it's a users preference it really should be a nonfactor,I dont hear players screaming to remove the stall limiter so why should the pitch ladder be any different?


  When I first heard pitch ladder I thought it was some sort of redneck drinking game...... Hold my beer and watch this!!!


   

[Vraciu]

  If this is the case they why to the put reference frames on the wings of high performance aerobatic aircraft?

Because they are competing for precision.

I said it isn't NECESSARY, but it helps.

I don't recall my friend Julie Clark's T-34 having anything on it like that, btw.   

[morfiend]

A military trainer is hardly a high performance aerobatic aircraft!


    BTW,I know the reason they have them,I merely stated this to point out that pilots often look left or right for reference. You stated that you didnt need to or found it of little value.

  Now I fully expect you to nitpik my post and point out some obtuse thing to try to strengthen your position. Which really is no position as you dont care about the ladder as you dont use it. 

  Not really sure why this is even being discussed,other than Rodent wanting to know why it disappears in the clouds.


  If AH was totally realistic,it would be much fun,no one would be around after the first sortie or 2!!!


   

[Vraciu]

A military trainer is hardly a high performance aerobatic aircraft!

Tell that to Julie Clark and her T-34.

Or anyone who flies a T-6, T-28, T-33, T-37, T-45, etc.    They're all high performance and aerobatic by design and classification.

I wonder if Bob Hoover needed stuff on the wings of his Shrike Commander...       Talk about restricted visibility.   Whew. 

    BTW,I know the reason they have them,I merely stated this to point out that pilots often look left or right for reference. You stated that you didnt need to or found it of little value.

I said it was useful to look around but not required.    I know my orientation without looking around because of the picture in my head.   I look around constantly in flight but I know where my nose is pointed without looking sideways (or elsewhere).   I also have an AH (Artificial Horizon) mentioned earlier in a pinch, but again, hardly ever used in this game, which is 99% VMC/VFR.

[colmbo]

I'll bet you a beer that when Julie pulls the nose above the horizon her eyes go to the left wingtip. 

At least that is how I was taught.  Once the horizon goes below the nose you lose a reference point, eyes on the left wingtip gives you pitch, yaw and roll info until the nose moves enough that you can again see the horizon over the nose.

[Vraciu]

I'll bet you a beer that when Julie pulls the nose above the horizon her eyes go to the left wingtip. 

At least that is how I was taught.  Once the horizon goes below the nose you lose a reference point, eyes on the left wingtip gives you pitch, yaw and roll info until the nose moves enough that you can again see the horizon over the nose.

I've flown with her (we've been friends since I was 14 years old).   She does a lot of stuff.    She references the ground a LOT.  NOTE: I don't pretend to know how she does what she does nor do I speak for her in any way.

Generally speaking, I agree with you.   The wingtip is certainly useful in an airplane where you can actually see it.   That said, I've done loops and unusual attitude recoveries (with a safety pilot) looking straight ahead.   It is an important skill to learn.

[Skuzzy]

Tell that to Julie Clark and her T-34.

Or anyone who flies a T-6, T-28, T-33, T-37, T-45, etc.    They're all high performance and aerobatic by design and classification.
<snip>

Wait a minute.  Are we talking about the same T-34 trainer used by the military?  The same two-seat, low wing, turbo prop plane?  I have ridden in a few.

Every description of that plane I have read states it is a military trainer.  I did not know if someone uses it for stunts it changes the classification of the plane.  Is that normal?  Design wise, where does it say it was designed to be a high performance, aerobatic plane?

Typically, I have noted the description of the plane as follows: The T-34 is an unpressurized two-seat, tandem cockpit low-wing turboprop trainer whose mission is to train military pilots.

[colmbo]

  Design wise, where does it say it was designed to be a high performance, aerobatic plane?

The FAA would describe it as "high performance" because it has over 200HP.  In the world of aerobatics it is on the low end of performance.

Julie Clark's T-34 is the piston engine variant....the turbine powered airplanes were later.

[Vraciu]

The FAA would describe it as "high performance" because it has over 200HP.  In the world of aerobatics it is on the low end of performance.

Julie Clark's T-34 is the piston engine variant....the turbine powered airplanes were later.

Correct. 

To Skuzzy's question...   One of its primary missions in the military was introduction to aerobatics for both pilots and (Navy) NFOs. +6G/-3G operating envelope (Beech designed it for +10G according to some sources).

Julie's is a T-34A with an uprated 300+ HP engine.  As a civilian instructor with the USN she learned (and later taught) aerobatics--among other things--in T-34s.   

[bustr]

You can turn it into a shooting HUD but, you are on the hook to train yourself with it because it is not an active lead comp gunsight. And it works very well once you learn to use it. I'm surprised no one figured this out after all this time. But, most players have no clue how the historical gunsights I put in every plane work. The 100mph principle and angle off pursuit vector is actively described by the relationship of the HUD ladder to a reticle setup the way the one in the screen capture is. The green lead computing cross teaches you how to use them. But, unlike the real K14 A-C would be adjusted for, you have to practice with different MG or cannons to learn that relationship to the HUD and reticle. And just like the real K14 or lead computing gunsights, there is a G limit you can pull in a turn beyond which you cannot hit a thing.