Author Topic: The Spanish Civil War  (Read 1339 times)

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2001, 01:29:00 PM »
Well .... to tell the truth, I, too, like the Early-Mid war Pacific setting. I was a blue bird freak long before I discovered the SCW. Perhaps some unity between our perspective goals is in order. After all, if one succeeds ... then the other is a step closer.  :)

< S >

 
Quote
Originally posted by Steven:
Arlo,

Heh heh.  I have an agenda for early-mid Pacific war aircraft and your topic was a very inviting place to spew my wants.  Actually, I feel your pain.  I'm coming to the conclusion that AH will always be a late-war Main Arena game and thus I keep one eye on the developing "Target Rabaul" with high hopes for that.  I do think the SCW would be a nice addition, though I feel some other battles or timeframes are more worthy of inclusion before it.  But it's not my game and the developers have their own vision and can do anything they want and I understand this.  I do feel you'll have much better luck in getting your SCW after a few other historical topics are addressed first in the Aces High plane set....like early-mid war Pacific!  


   :)

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »
You've got more of a familiarity with the subject than many I've talked to.    :)

 Your suggestion is worth looking into. I'd rather see it come to fruition here, though. Especially since here is where most of my AW friends (and my AW squad) will be hanging it's hat.

(I snipped the speech since I ended up posting it in it's own thread)

   
Quote
Originally posted by oboe:
"This just in:  Generalissimo Francisco Franco...is still dead."


[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Arlo ]

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2001, 01:11:00 AM »
Spanish Civil War (Aerial) Timeline

  July-36

 Spanish Civil War starts; Spanish Air Force splits. most of the 60 Breguet XIX recon bombers and 20 Vickers Vildebeest torpedo bombers go Republican. Most of the Nieuport-Delage Ni.D.52 biplane fighters go Republican (40 Repub, 9 Nat’l).

The Spanish Loyalist government buys 12 million francs worth of aircraft, including 14 Dewoitine D.371 and 10 D.373 parasol-wing fighters, and 49 Potez Po.540 medium bombers.

Malraux raises money and buys a squadron of Potez Po.540 bombers to form the Escuadrilla Espana. Based in Madrid, manned by warriors and intellectuals from all over Europe, they are colorful - but not very effective. By December, having lost half their aircraft, they are absorbed into the Republican Air Force.

Germany sends 10 Ju52s to airlift Franco’s Spanish Legion troops from Morocco to Spain· .

Italy sends a squadron of CR.32 fighters as escort for the two freighters sent to help move the Spanish Legion from Morocco to Spain.
 
Aug-36

 After sending several dozen aircraft, France cuts off further arms shipments to Republican Spain.

10 Ju52/3m and 6 He51 were established at Tablada airfield near Sevilla as part of a German volunteer detachment, ostensibly to train Spanish pilots to fly the new equipment. The Germans call their Spanish adventure Operation Feuerzauber (Magic Fire).

An Italian squadron flying Fiat C.R.32 fighters was set up but without the pretense. A squadron of Savoia bombers (SM.81s?) fly into Sevilla. A squadron on Caproni Ca.135s fly into Sevilla; they are used in the north.

In the first few weeks, several combat sorties were flown. Among the pilots who claimed victories over Republican aircraft were two Spanish pilots: Joachim Garcia Morata (40) and Julio Salvador Diaz-Benjumea (24). (The number in parentheses is the claimed total for the war.) Flying He51's, they encountered a variety of enemy aircraft.

 It is certain that more than one Breguet XIX did not return from an encounter with an He 51 during August 1936, but victories over other types are less clear.

By August's end, the Germans and their Spanish "trainees" had moved to Escalona del Prado, near Madrid. By now, the pretense was dropped and the German volunteers started flying combat sorties. Herwig Knuppel (8), Kraft Eberhardt (7), and Hannes Trautloft (5) initiated their scores.

 Flying a Republican bomber over the Nationalist Northern Army was fast becoming an unhealthy proposition.
 
Sept-36

9 He 51s based at Caceres.

After the defeat of a Republican invasion force, an Italian fighter sqdn is stationed in Majorca. Throughout the war, Italian air and naval units operate from Majorca.
After scoring four kills, Morato got himself transferred to the Italian squadron.

 The Fiat CR 32 was widely regarded as the best fighter in the Spanish skies so the attraction was self-evident despite a clear antipathy between Italian and Spanish officials.

 Morato scored 36 more victories while flying the Fiat. In the ensuing weeks his example would be followed by several of the more talented Spanish pilots.
 
Oct-36

 The German Kondor Legion’s air unit is 36-48 He51s (JGr88), 48 Ju52s (KGr88), a seaplane sqdn, a recon sqdn (18x He70s), and an experimental sqdn. Other units include 6 batteries of AAA. The Italians have several fighter and bomber squadrons.

The Republicans received an infusion of about 50 Russian aircraft. SB-2 Katuska bombers began operations before the month was out, and I-15 Chatos scored their first kill on November 4, 1936 against a Ju-52. The Soviets eventually send several hundred aircraft.
 
Nov-36

 Russian/Republican units clash with German and Italians. See the November, 1936 scenarios.

 Germans start to bomb Madrid.
 
Dec-36

 A squadron of I-15s are stationed in Bilbao.
 
Jan-Feb '37

 Germany adds He-111Bs, Do17Fs, and Me109Bs for ‘field testing.’
 
Italy add S.M 79s.

France sneaks in 20 Loire 46 fighters (on par with the Polish PZL P.11).
 
Mar-37

 In response to a Nationalist advance on Madrid using Italian troops, the Republicans added ground support missions - with devastating effects on the Italian ground units.

 Nationalist attention shifts to Basque Spain. A wide swath of northern Spain was Republican, from Bilboa to Oviedo. The Nationalists began a series of offensives, each aimed taking a major northern port and its surrounding area.

 40 aircraft new aircraft are added to Mola’s Nationalist Army of the North. He goes into action with 120 aircraft, including the Kondor Legion and the Legione Aviazione.

 Late in March, Durango, an otherwise defenseless town, is bombed.

Apr-37

 The Guernica raid occurs (German He-111Bs and Ju52s bomb the militarily insignificant town of Guernica solely as a terror action, destroying it. A fresh wave hits the town every 20 minutes for three hours.)
 
Kondor Legion is upgraded:
Bf109B-1 introduced in small numbers (eventially replace 2 of three fighter squadrons of J/88; He51s given to Nationalist Spain); He111B-2 replaces 2 Ju52 bomber squadrons in K/88; 18 Do17Fs replace the surviving 12 He70s (given to Spain);
 
Jun-37

 Soviets send updated designs (I-152 and I-16 Type10).
 
Jul-37

 Battle of Brunete (a Republican attempt to relieve pressure on Madrid). Republicans commit 150 aircraft - and lose 100 of them. The Nationalists lose 23.

 The Bf109Bs are included in the Nationalist flight line.

Aug-37

 Republicans have some 470 aircraft against about 350 Nationalist aircraft. However, Nationalists are still better trained. (Not clear if these numbers include the Kondor Legion and the Legione Aviazione).
 
18 Russian fighters and 15 older fighters and bombers defend Santander.
 
Nov-37

 Germany and Italy add one kette of Ju87A (for testing), 5 Ju86D-1, a squadron He111E-3s and some Fiat BR.20s.
 
Apr-38

 He51s and Meridonali Ro.37bis provide good ground support to Nationalist offensives.
May-38 Basque areas are completely undefended from the air. They are bombed constantly.
 
Summer '38

 Soviet airmen are phased out, taking the most experienced pilots flying for the Republicans. Heavy losses in July.
 
Oct-38

 5 Ju87B-1s added to K/88 for field testing.
Jan-39 Fiat G.50s and Bf109E-1s receive ‘field testing.’

 Republicans on the wane

Feb-39

 Republicans down to 40 aircraft for the Army of the Center; by the 3rd week, the full Republican air force is “3 sqdns of Natacho bombers, 2 sqdns of Katiuska (SB-2) bombers, 25 fighters.”

 The Nationalists have some 600 aircraft.
 
Mar-39

 The final Republicans surrender. As the Germans leave, they hand over to the Spanish Air Force their surviving equipment.

 source here


FRANK G. TINKER

One and not the only , of the americans fought at the side of the Republican Government in Spain in the Civil War 1936-39 , was Frank Tinker. It is said that he was the first american fighter pilot to shoot down a Messerschmit german aircraft .

The foreign pilots involved in the Spanish civil war were ‘mercenaries’ but most of them sympathisers of the republican cause which is to be interpreted as an anti-fascist attitude rather than a pro-communist one . This is the case with Tinker . The Italians and Germans fighting on the other side for Franco were merely enlisted , professional military airmen . Tinker was not .

Between the 7th and 29th of July 1937 he flew for 191 hours and shot down 8 aircraft . On the 14th he flies a Polikarpov I-15 biplane named by the Spaniards as "chato" ( The Donkey ) registered  CA-056 . He is shooting down an Italian Fiat CR-32 biplane over Guadalajara . This is repeated again next day . On the 17th he escorts bombers and flying with the CA-058 he shoots down a german He-51 biplane that belonged to the Legion Condor commanded by Air Marshal Richtofen ( cousin of the famous Red Baron )

He is later detached to the newly organised 1st Squadron of Moscas equipped with the new monoplanes I-16 - named 'moscas' ( the Flies ) for the noise of their engine

On the 2nd of June over Segovia again escorting bombers he shoots down on the CM-070 another CR-32 then again another few hours later .

On the 12th his group detects the existence of a new monoplane german fighter . It is the Bf109 that attacks a lonely I-15 . Tinker attacks on his CM-023 and he sees clearly one Bf109 going down on flames . The first time an American is shooting down a Messerschmit . Next morning he shoots down another CR-32 over Brunette .

On August 1938 Tinker leaves Spain forever to the USA . He faces however problems with his entry as the Foreign Affairs tell him he has violated an ‘instruction’ of his country for people not to join the fighting parties in the civil war . He feels he is not really ‘accepted’ at home . His life continues in misery and when in April 1939 Franco announces his total victory he decides to terminate his life few weeks later .

Later , after the end of WW2 , he was recognised in USA as a 'gallant' american fighter for liberty


source here


Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2001, 09:07:00 PM »

Offline necro_v

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2001, 02:02:00 AM »
Hi Arlo,

Here there is other based real SCW fighter group web (virtual squadron  :) )

geocities.com/grupo21_fare

-----

Hola Arlo,

Aqui tienes otra web basada en un grupo de caza real de la GCE (la web es de un escuadron virtual)

geocities.com/grupo21_fare

Necro_v
Grupo 21 de las FARE (virtuales  :))

Offline Seeker

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2001, 02:33:00 AM »
Don't be fooled, you guys....

Arlo only wants this because he's a closet Fascist, and he'll demand you all salute him as he enters the arena.

Trust me, it's a fact!

Offline gunhogfw

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2001, 06:11:00 AM »
Hi my name is gunhog and iam 14..i flew one of those old planes in the american revolution!I gote a pink heart too!

Offline Wutz

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2001, 11:12:00 AM »
Hei, I like the spanish civil war idea. It would be something never recreated in the Online Flightsim envrmnt (Luftwaffe Comander had a spanish campagn, but I dont think LC ever went online). There is many intresting planes too fly in this period, like I-153 and I-16.  :p

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2001, 01:07:00 PM »
Hola, Necro!

 Thanks for the link. There are a few of us trying to organize a website devoted to a Spanish Civil War sim or the adoption of a SCW arena by an existing sim.

SCWMOFS


 It's still very much under constrution and anyone wanting to join in on the project is more than welcome.

 
Quote
Originally posted by necro_v:
Hi Arlo,

Here there is other based real SCW fighter group web (virtual squadron   :) )

geocities.com/grupo21_fare

-----

Hola Arlo,

Aqui tienes otra web basada en un grupo de caza real de la GCE (la web es de un escuadron virtual)

geocities.com/grupo21_fare

Necro_v
Grupo 21 de las FARE (virtuales   :))

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2001, 01:08:00 PM »
ROFL! I only want the sheep to salute.  ;)

 
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker:
Don't be fooled, you guys....

Arlo only wants this because he's a closet Fascist, and he'll demand you all salute him as he enters the arena.

Trust me, it's a fact!

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2001, 01:09:00 PM »
Exactly! Right on!  :)

 
Quote
Originally posted by Wutz:
Hei, I like the spanish civil war idea. It would be something never recreated in the Online Flightsim envrmnt (Luftwaffe Comander had a spanish campagn, but I dont think LC ever went online). There is many intresting planes too fly in this period, like I-153 and I-16.   :p

Offline Aub

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2001, 04:17:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo:
ROFL! I only want the sheep to salute.   ;)

 

That isn't what sheep are used for, Cuz...

Aub

Offline Sundog

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2001, 10:49:00 PM »
Very cool Arlo. I had actually researched alot on the SCW to make an arena using targetware software, but that's alot of work. All I really want is an He-112B   :) Thanks for all of the links, they should prove useful. Did you pick up the 'Classic Publications, Classic Colours series, Luftwaffe colours, Volume one Section 2, Jagdwaffe' on the 'Spanish Civil War'?. The authors are Eric Mombeek with J. Richard Smith & Eddie J. Creek. The last two names you may know from Monogram Publications. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the Spanish Civil War.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Sundog ]

Offline Arlo

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The Spanish Civil War
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2001, 11:01:00 PM »
I've had friends suggest that route. Glad to see another who shares in this interest.
The book you suggest sounds like some good material. I've a huge list of books that a friend up in Michigan sent me that has TONS of books (he has in his possession. Sometime when I'm feeling energetic I may list them (or get lazy and go use a friend's scanner).

 :D < S >