New GV dar

[Devil 505]

uhhh Devil, this is a cartoon game, how can you be a coward in a cartoon game. Try to be more rational in your responses.

If a player decides to tower out rather than risk getting found by an enemy, that may be the most cowardly thing a player could do in a combat game.

[RODBUSTR]

     8thJinx comments on leaving It where It's at.  The gv They were hunting was impotent and out of play and as good as dead.  If it was attacking It would have broken cover, also that type of play just depletes the effectiveness of the team. I leave alone. usually .  Wirbs are all but useless to up unless with a fair amount of armor now. but my solution is just not to play gv.  no biggy I didn't do It much anyway except as base defense or logistical.  If chasing non threats are fun for You have at It It's Your quarter.

[Copprhed]

Not only is this thread over, it's pointless. Skuzzy...put it to rest...please?

[molybdenum]

It seems to have limited efficacy in narrowing down where a GV might be hiding, and far too much efficacy in locating a GV on the move. This maximizes the need to hide rather than fight if a bomb**** is present, and unless you like searching for a well-hidden enemy like 8thjinx does, it simply takes players away from the potential of a fun fight and into (what would be to me) a tedious search.

I guess I'll never get it why this new GV dar was considered necessary. Anyone who can read activity on a map (town flash, base flash, shore battery flash, or all three) could tell about where a GV had to be without it. If there was a find-the-fight benefit it seems to me to have been minimal: and at what price? A significant number of players dislike it passionately and the strategy and stealth aspect of the game have been greatly reduced.

Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all. It was one of the things I liked doing most in AH--there was such a drama aspect of poking around and blowing the crap out of a town, hoping the presence of GVs was unsuspected, watching cons and uppers and wondering if they'd figured it out and were on their way to kill you, racing around trying to find and kill the last few buildings to make the town ready while the m3 you'd called for was sweating bullets at the flag...it was intense. And, IF successful (yes, often without a fight, though the most fun was had when the bad guys figured it out at the last moment and the issue was in doubt), a fight almost always happened moments later, either at the base you'd just taken as the enemy tried to deack and take it back, or at the next base over as you tried to spawn out of your new toehold in enemy territory to a new target before the bad guys could react.

That's lost now. So is the 20 mile m3 drive to a base without a spawn and hoping for a white flag/deack while the enemy, even if aware there is peril, is searching for a goon while you chuckle, communicate the situation on the ground with teammates, and wait. It was such a triumph for all involved if you succeeded; and such a triumph for the enemy if he was clever enough to suspect and find you after your long drive...!

Anyway, enough reminiscing. But I did want the stealth disparagers to have a better sense of why the GV dar spoils the game for many of us.

[waystin2]

It seems to have limited efficacy in narrowing down where a GV might be hiding, and far too much efficacy in locating a GV on the move. This maximizes the need to hide rather than fight if a bomb**** is present, and unless you like searching for a well-hidden enemy like 8thjinx does, it simply takes players away from the potential of a fun fight and into (what would be to me) a tedious search.

I guess I'll never get it why this new GV dar was considered necessary. Anyone who can read activity on a map (town flash, base flash, shore battery flash, or all three) could tell about where a GV had to be without it. If there was a find-the-fight benefit it seems to me to have been minimal: and at what price? A significant number of players dislike it passionately and the strategy and stealth aspect of the game have been greatly reduced.

Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all. It was one of the things I liked doing most in AH--there was such a drama aspect of poking around and blowing the crap out of a town, hoping the presence of GVs was unsuspected, watching cons and uppers and wondering if they'd figured it out and were on their way to kill you, racing around trying to find and kill the last few buildings to make the town ready while the m3 you'd called for was sweating bullets at the flag...it was intense. And, IF successful (yes, often without a fight, though the most fun was had when the bad guys figured it out at the last moment and the issue was in doubt), a fight almost always happened moments later, either at the base you'd just taken as the enemy tried to deack and take it back, or at the next base over as you tried to spawn out of your new toehold in enemy territory to a new target before the bad guys could react.

That's lost now. So is the 20 mile m3 drive to a base without a spawn and hoping for a white flag/deack while the enemy, even if aware there is peril, is searching for a goon while you chuckle, communicate the situation on the ground with teammates, and wait. It was such a triumph for all involved if you succeeded; and such a triumph for the enemy if he was clever enough to suspect and find you after your long drive...!

Anyway, enough reminiscing. But I did want the stealth disparagers to have a better sense of why the GV dar spoils the game for many of us.

Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented.  Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them.  Now they they are more easily found.  The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.

[8thJinx]

Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented.  Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them.  Now they they are more easily found.  The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.

Something should also be done about flying off the edge of the map, like instant death or something. 

[Oldman731]

Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all.

...er....sort of sounds like it, to me...

- oldman

[redcatcherb412]

Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them

Agreed. GVs I assume to some here are expected when a heavy or cannon laden plane flies over to drive to an open field, shoot at a 300mph plane with a single MG and wait for the 500lb gift or losing its tracks to cannon fire. GVs are only there to feed the ground attack flyers kills, not take bases but drive 15 minutes to feed these boys a fast kill. Maybe taking a town down isn't 'combat' to them, but bases are rarely undefended and it serves the 'GAME' objective of winning the warz. Last night I burned up a half hour trying to just reach a town in an M4 with a b25 and 2 p38s trying to kill me. I would go between tree clumps when acft were not directly overhead and managed 3k of ground travel in this cat and mouse fashion finally reaching just within sight of buildings after many strafing and bombing attempts.  I don't think the GV dar helped the hunters much since the dar block covered the entire town dot which of course was flashing. It took 4 players, 3 acft and 1 tank that did take out my tank just before I could dump 60 rockets on the town.  To the players screeching the game must be constant combat and shooting or you're a bunch of cartoon cowards the 30 minutes was a waste of time. To me the objective I failed, but had I prevailed would have taken the town down for a take. That's what the game is about for me, I had fun trying, the 4 enemy had the fun and challenge of stopping me. Believe me, I will repeat this same thing over and over to take the bases.  <salute> to woody002 in his b25 and dwwaves in his tank for their persistence, it saved their base which was their objective.

[The Fugitive]

Quote from: molybdenum on Today at 10:18:55 AM

    Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them

Stealth isnt gone. I was hiding in a probable route to town when the Bish horde showed up. Most of my "kills" were bish flying into the ground I did get another along the route, but the M3 got by me and we lost the base. The hunt was on!

An F6 spotted me and started circling to mark me and I started running. Moving from tree group to tree group when the F6 wasnt looking. I finally got out from under him. Still dodgin vehicles I got to a good place to hide out. While the planes couldn't reup.... due to the Bish horde prime operating handbook (scorched earth policy sub section "b") all I had to deal with were GVs. With the hiding and moving they soon gave up and I landed 12 kills.

I suck in GVs and I did ok and had some fun, and believe it or not landed the kills. This change really doesn't hurt GVin, it just changes how we play in GVs. Even the stealth runs to strats can still happen, it just is going to take a bit of skill in your hiding and moving about. GVs have unlimited fuel, planes dont.

Give it a couple months to learn the new tricks. 

[molybdenum]

Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented.  Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them.  Now they they are more easily found.  The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.

HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.

The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?

In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.

And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?

[waystin2]

HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.

The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?

In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.

And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?

This hiding has always occurred to avoid other players in the effort to capture fields unopposed.  It was never because someone would up to try to bomb, shoot or engage them.  The addition of thicker foilage had made it nearly impossible to spot GV's.  This has been corrected.  It has always been about avoidance.  Your armchair general tactics on country tended to follow the same strategies. 

[bustr]

The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?

This is a very poor question since the players with bombs are having fun and your gist is trying to make Hitech think you have a monolithic consensus of all player types supporting you. I thought you were quitting some time back because Hitech was allowing me to make strats too hard for you to have fun bombing anyway.

The statement and prime reason none of the GVers decrying Hitech's decision will publicly make but, describe it in vivid detail to support their anger is simple. They are arguing that Hitech has to keep them invisible so they can as a single "tank fighter pilot" fantasy dictate the outcomes of combat as a solo player at any field they want to sneak around against much larger numbers. When tanks and wirbles show up in numbers, the GVDAR is meaningless and GV battles take place. Solo players have ever been bombed then end up in these forums crying at Hitech to do something to the guys with bombs so they can be effectively invisible.

All the arguments against GVDAR are by solo tankers demanding Hitech has to keep them invisible.

[Mano]

The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?

This is a very poor question since the players with bombs are having fun and your gist is trying to make Hitech think you have a monolithic consensus of all player types supporting you. I thought you were quitting some time back because Hitech was allowing me to make strats too hard for you to have fun bombing anyway.

The statement and prime reason none of the GVers decrying Hitech's decision will publicly make but, describe it in vivid detail to support their anger is simple. They are arguing that Hitech has to keep them invisible so they can as a single "tank fighter pilot" fantasy dictate the outcomes of combat as a solo player at any field they want to sneak around against much larger numbers. When tanks and wirbles show up in numbers, the GVDAR is meaningless and GV battles take place. Solo players have ever been bombed then end up in these forums crying at Hitech to do something to the guys with bombs so they can be effectively invisible.

All the arguments against GVDAR are by solo tankers demanding Hitech has to keep them invisible.

Translation:Six simple words, I like to bomb ground vehicles


 

[The Fugitive]

HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.

The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?

In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.

And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?

You have to look at from a business stand point. HTC loses you but gains 5 players who join because they can find a fight better, they win.

On top of that, you are complaining because you cant play the same way you have right along..... welcome to my world!. The game has changed and evolved in the years it has been here. Either you adapt..... and many will, or you leave. Good luck to you, but those of us who stay may see a better game play evolve out of this change.

[serun]

Something should also be done about flying off the edge of the map, like instant death or something. 

AMEN!!