New GV dar

[hitech]

Not at all.
GV's have been, and still are, mostly just victims to the air war. Unless they are going into total hiding (which was made possible by the new terrain, not the icon ranges), a GV force attacking a base will always be at the mercy of a likewise sized & skilled air force.

The only setting I would have ever changed is icon range to friendly GVs when in a plane, which should be the same as for enemy GV (yes, it's about the infamose Wirble dragging).

And there I was yesterday, cruising in my Ta 152 at 20K and could exactly tell where the enemy vehicles were maneuvering at a base 100 miles away. I could even tell they were trying to avoid the direct way from spawn to town by diverting to the coast and then going along it towards the base.

Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.

HiTech

[Lusche]

Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.

HiTech

GV combat has a different dynamic to it, and the GV dar has a much finer granularity. In GV combat, I can use it tactically, in air combat, the sector darbar doesn't help me much with my maneuvering in combat itself.

[Zoney]

I'm not going to change my previous posts because that would be disingenuous, but in retrospect, my opinion has very little if any value because I do not GV.

I also do not engage GV's with my aircraft.  They are having their fun and I do not wish to take that away from them as they are engaging each other.  Because of this, I wish they would also not engage my aircraft.   I know that is not going to happen.

[JimmyD3]

Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.

HiTech

Town or Base flashing, no Dar Bar, most likely a GV. Same useful information.

[Devil 505]

GV combat has a different dynamic to it, and the GV dar has a much finer granularity. In GV combat, I can use it tactically, in air combat, the sector darbar doesn't help me much with my maneuvering in combat itself.

The problem is, having some tactical aid is exactly what's needed for attacking GV's with aircraft. Without it, Zoney's assessment was correct.

[puller]

Kilroy, to be fair the "furballers" who are left are the historic type for the most part or b list like Anti Horde.

Furballers are already gone so don't blame them.

Whine recorded....

Guess we are still living rent free in your head junky...Seems every post you make is a slight toward my guys...WTG

[Lusche]

The problem is, having some tactical aid is exactly what's needed for attacking GV's with aircraft.

Why is it needed? What trouble did you folks had in enaging GV from the air that I don't know about? I simply still don't get it. Vehicles are target. Vehicles are victims. Even without magic.

And more importantly, it's not only affecting planes vs GV. It's also affecting GV vs GV combat.

[Krusty]

The comparison between plane darbar and gv darbar doesn't even really hold up. You see an air sector bar, you spend a few minutes flying around the sector looking for a contact. You see the contact somewhere and then it's up to you to maneuver in some way as to engage that contact. You are limited only by your ability to get your guns on target. Action/conflict has been created and its up to you to play it out. You know they are flying and in the air. Dar bar is sufficient for getting you to the fight.

With a GV you can stop and sit and camp and be disruptive and grief the playerbase quite easily. That's the problem. A plane can't shut off its engine and just hover in the air somewhere, still shooting its guns at anything nearby while being invisible. A plane does anything like that and they 1) find themselves somewhere else (because flight requires constant forward motion) or 2) Darwinistically kill themselves because they tried to stay in place and camp (planes crash when you do that).

Tanks require more definition in the radar pointing you towards the fight because of the minority mentality that turns them into disruptions of the normal gameplay. If they didn't camp hidden, invisible, undetectable from ground or air while still retaining the ability to 1-shot-kill their foes and spawn camp... well then this wouldn't be a problem and none of us would be having this discussion.


The issue is: It IS a problem. How do you fix it? Suggesting they they play a certain way isn't HT's style and is impossible to enforce. The other way is to dissuade them from their current playstyle by changing how much grief they cause.

So, what's your solution to this problem? It IS a problem. What do you change to resolve this? I say 6k GV icons from the air is a good start. This GV radar is another method (I'm on the fence about it but it makes some sense).

[Lusche]

I say 6k GV icons from the air is a good start.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

[Wiley]

I keep coming back to that aerial pic somebody posted a while ago of an area that had GV activity in the war.  Tracks stuck out like a sore thumb.  I wonder what kind of performance hit a 1000 yard set of tracks running behind a vehicle would have on the game?  Between that, dust/smoke on movement, and dust/smoke on firing, I'd think that would provide enough realistic feedback to make it work.  Only thing that would need to be worked out is how to prevent a guy from stopping under a tree and rocking back and forth to put 1000 yards of tracks right under him so it wouldn't show.

Wiley.

[Krusty]

I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

Keep shaking it. Just as with air icons, ground icons represent information the game cannot display. Tanks were the most visible and audible thing on the battlefield for miles around. They could NOT be missed. In this game you have to be dangerously low alt to spot them and often are already committed to your attack run before you even see an icon.

That's just unrealistic and an arbitrary handicap to benefit GVs in this game -- and I might add was only because GV players whined about being attacked from the air. Rather than change tactics, fly with friends as top cover or anything remotely realistic they whined to make the game easier for them.

Just like today.

We have to stop making it easier for GVs. If we don't then I'm going to start whining that my plane is visible to other planes and it shouldn't be because that's not fair and I want to be able to engage planes taking off and kill them on the runway but I can't because the players keep seeing me and won't spawn or they shoot me down....


 

It's a very lopsided double standard right now, and GVs have had only profited from it. Now we have the problem with GV gameplay suffering because of camping, because of griefing gameplay styles, because of things that would be easily fixed if they could be actually spotted and attacked from the air... You know, like in reality. Like history showed. Like back when icons were 6k for GVs.

If you persist in creating a world where GVs are so isolated from anything else, put them in their own arena like WW1. We'll see how many want that. Otherwise equalize the standards at play. GVs see aircraft information at twice the range that planes can see GV information. Why? Because the whines.

[JunkyII]

Whine recorded....

Guess we are still living rent free in your head junky...Seems every post you make is a slight toward my guys...WTG

Its not a whine, The old furball squads I couldn't sit here and say I can beat any pilot in their squad in their favorite plane without any doubt in my mind....today most of the dedicated furball squads I can.

Sorry to tell you, you guys aren't nearly as good as The Few, AoM, BKs, ect ect ect used to be. Not even close....so again.... B list.

[Devil 505]

Why is it needed? What trouble did you folks had in enaging GV from the air that I don't know about? I simply still don't get it. Vehicles are target. Vehicles are victims. Even without magic.

And more importantly, it's not only affecting planes vs GV. It's also affecting GV vs GV combat.

Krusty nailed it.

The ability for aircraft to effectively engage GV's was lost when the Storch was introduced along with the new GV icon rules. I was easier in AH2 because there was much less cover, but still difficult with the icon change. In AH3 it is near impossible to spot and engage a single GV from a plane without F3 mode.

What I keep trying to drive home is the fact that before the icon change GV vs. GV fights would often generate air combat as well. The GV killers would roll to hunt the tanks and the fighters would roll to kill the GV killers. It was a healthy environment for total combat and it is gone now.

[popeye]

In AH3 it is near impossible to spot and engage a single GV from a plane without F3 mode.

Not sure what you mean.  If the GV is moving, or stopped in the open, it is very possible to find and bomb him without F3 mode.

As for the new GV dar, it doesn't help find a GV that is determined to hide.  I flew a low, slow grid pattern over a GV "bar" in a Storch last night and never saw an icon.  So, I really didn't know much more than I would have from the flashing base with no aircraft darbar.

[rvflyer]

I guess everyone gets rule #4 if they express an opinion. Sorry Dale still becoming arcade game and that is fine if that is what is needed to get new players to the game.

See rule #4