180 degree turn with NO E burned??? Please explain the physics and how to...

[wil3ur]

Great explanation Shida...  As always though, it takes a lot of times practicing and figuring out not only what the other guy is setting up for and most likely to do, but when is that optimal time to start the maneuver.

I had someone dump E on the other day as I was setting up a lead turn on the merge and ended up right in front of his guns...  so even when you think you have it mastered, there's guys out there that'll still give you a run for the money.

I think next lesson should be the lagroll.  Learning this technique helped me not fear having someone on my 6, and in the long run helped me feel more in control of the fight (in the drivers seat) and helps bait more timid fighters in.  I had a great one last night I wish I had filmed with a Spit 8 diving on my 6 coming in hard.  A slow bank turn to cause him to pull lead for a firing solution and going high yoyo as he passed through and a quick roll at the top.  As he went vertical to stay with me, it put his cockpit right in my crosshairs, a tater sealed the deal.   

[nrshida]

Great explanation Shida... 

Thank you. Is it helping to have a less engineer-brain narrative approach injected with British humour?

when is that optimal time to start the maneuver.

With some ACM there are visual cues, for the rest it's a question of experience. You definetely know when you've done something too late. Too early is equally disasterous but harder to notice.

I think next lesson should be the lagroll.  Learning this technique helped me not fear having someone on my 6, and in the long run helped me feel more in control of the fight (in the drivers seat) and helps bait more timid fighters in.  I had a great one last night I wish I had filmed with a Spit 8 diving on my 6 coming in hard.  A slow bank turn to cause him to pull lead for a firing solution and going high yoyo as he passed through and a quick roll at the top.  As he went vertical to stay with me, it put his cockpit right in my crosshairs, a tater sealed the deal.   

A special requests! That's a really nice example because it incorporates relative energy, rolling planes and lead, lag, pure pursuit... aTIMINGnd. Damn, damn, went too early.

But soon I must break for holidays. Those bloody Trainers had their Christmas party while I was slaving over all that text. Didn't even get an invite. They even had strippers and those little sticks with cheese and pickles on Kingpin told me. What a bunch of scrooges (Kingpin excepted, obviously).


 

[Max]

Judging E...something I have difficulty with when it's less than patently obvious, i.e. an opponent dropping in with a distinct alt advantage.

lag roll...sounds (to me) similar to a rolling scissors. Please explain the difference and provide some illustrations/diagrams of the differences, and when to use which one and why.

Enjoy your holiday sabbatical shida 

[FLS]

A lag displacement roll is a barrel roll that results in an exit line parallel to the entry line but moved over to the side.

[wil3ur]

lag roll...sounds (to me) similar to a rolling scissors. Please explain the difference and provide some illustrations/diagrams of the differences, and when to use which one and why.

The way it was explained to me is your taking advantage of the time it takes your opponent to react to your maneuver, to force an overshoot and put you in a firing solution when you have less E than your attacker.

Start off with a slow bank turn, preferably with a bit of dive to gain as much E in the maneuver as possible.  This also forces the enemy to try and nose down and gain more speed.  In order to get a firing solution, they must pull lead, they can't simply nose up a bit and lob shells on you.  When they pull for lead, that is your signal to go to the next step in the maneuver which is to go vertical.  If done correctly, they should be 800 or less out and gaining on you.  In the time it takes them to recognize you're going vertical and if they're continuing to try and press the attack, they will pull up to stay with you.  At this point, you should already be at your peak and rolling over to come back down.  This ends up with you being basically flat to the ground as the opponent which overshot in the first part of the turn, now comes into view of your guns with a full topdown firing angle.

Depending on relative E and how much he blew trying to stay with you, you can try and reverse your roll and get on his 6 if you miss your first shot, or you can reverse and take off another direction setting them up for the same maneuver again.

I'd say the main difference between it and a rolling scissor would be you're forcing the overshoot in a single well planned turn, rather than jockeying for position in an extended drawn out maneuver.  Also, the main roll takes place in the vert as opposed to horizontal.


Now, I'm no real life pilot and some of my terms are probably wrong.  It was taught to me by my old squaddie TinmanX (Cheech) back in the day.  He was deadly with it in a Zeke.

[FLS]

Wilbur you're describing a barrel roll defense. If the overshooting attacker counters the barrel roll defense with a barrel roll then a rolling scissors is likely to develop.

[Kingpin]

Here's a nice short video of a Barrel Roll Defense, just as Wilbur describes (the author calles it something else, but it's a BRD.

As Wilbur said, you start with a break turn back into the closing bandit to increase angle off tail and to increase the closure rate.  Normally you want to do this just before the bandit reaches guns range, as this also acts as a guns defense.  If you do the break slightly nose low (as is done in the video), you are maneuvering out of plane to the bandit, which complicates a firing solution and forces the bandit's nose down to track you.  This can further increase his closure rate and while it builds energy for your ensuing vertical maneuver (barrel roll over the top).

As you see the bandit's aspect change from his nose pointing at or in front of you to pointing behind you, you know he is no longer pulling lead and is maneuvering outside of your turn circle.  You then pull a barrel roll over the top and back into bandit.  If the bandit overshoots, depending on what he does next, this may present you with a shot, as is the case in the film.

Be careful to observe the bandit entirely throughout your maneuvering, as some players may recognize the set up for the overshoot, and may be able to cut throttle and pull up into your barrel roll, especially if you time it incorrectly.  This can result in them staying on your six, having a nice shot on you at the top (while you present a full plane form to them) or possibly transition into a rolling scissors if the E-states neutralize without either of you gaining a definitive angles advantage.

The Barrel Roll Defense to Snap Shot



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAi_TRAV4E8

Hope this helps.

[FLS]

Kingpin if you want to embed the video use the youtube "share" link instead of the webpage address.