Offensive-defensive buff gunnery

[Max]

I'm left pulling my hair (and there aint much left) out no matter which side of the coin I'm on. Guys like 999000 or APP75; If I come within less than d2000, they're knocking parts off my plane, or worse. I'm not necessarily speaking off a dead 6 attack...I can be diving in, or zooming up on a 10 / 4, 2 / 8 slash attack. 75% of the time, I'm limping back to base or dead while they merrily fly on their way.

No put the shoe on the other foot, now and again I get lucky but whether I be in Lancs, 17's, 24's whathaveyou...it takes me forever to kill an attacker. I've had guys sitting on my 6 at d600 while I empty my 50 cals, watching my hit sprites land while they continue to hose me.

Some much needed advice would be appreciated.

[bustr]

999 has been shooting me down in his B17 since around 92-93 in Air Warrior. Then he resumed that in his B17 here in AH when I joined in 2002. I've found your best angles are 2 and 10 either high or low with speed when alone. Since he is one guy, you can always time your attack while he's focused on another green guy. I suspect long ago he got copies of all the flexible gunnery manuals for the AAF and USN from WW2 and came up with his own gunsights to help him gauge lead.

This link is to a USN manual with a section on sights and sighting about half way in 300 or so pages in bombers that the AAF and USN used.

https://aviationshoppe.com/1944-aircrewmans-gunnery-manual-a-18.html

It will give you and idea of what he is doing and possibly some insight to how to beat him. It worked for me.

[100Coogn]

I'm left pulling my hair (and there aint much left) out no matter which side of the coin I'm on. Guys like 999000 or APP75; If I come within less than d2000, they're knocking parts off my plane, or worse. I'm not necessarily speaking off a dead 6 attack...I can be diving in, or zooming up on a 10 / 4, 2 / 8 slash attack. 75% of the time, I'm limping back to base or dead while they merrily fly on their way.

No put the shoe on the other foot, now and again I get lucky but whether I be in Lancs, 17's, 24's whathaveyou...it takes me forever to kill an attacker. I've had guys sitting on my 6 at d600 while I empty my 50 cals, watching my hit sprites land while they continue to hose me.

Some much needed advice would be appreciated.

I'm interested in this as well. 

Coogan

[Max]

Thanks for the link bustr. Looks like some great info to absorb. <S>

[Bruv119]

lets not exaggerate max    d1000   no further! 

some guys have alot of practice, gruesome is ridiculous from all angles.  I've shot all 3 of APPs down un-harmed but it needs alot of energy/speed and a Good 1st pass to reduce the amount of guns. 

Dantoo's B26s back in the day Ughhh  rather let them fly away.   

I'd much much have it this way with a person manning the guns rather than AI though.  Least they have earned the kill and the shot. 

[1stpar3]

Eh,uh,Bruv....don't think he was exaggerating too much I have had some of those times myself,Ok maybe not D2000 but purt near that far   ping ping...ding and going down. True some times I get lucky...USUALLY in like a 110 But heck, I can shut my eyes and not even look and get at least 1 in a 110 But a 51 or any thing non cannon and    Some guys just get ya. Have heard that "padlocking"....hitting tab will improve results when.gunning FROM bombers? Maybe it's that they gun from a position other than Tail Guns? Just wondering the opinions!

[Max]

OK Bruv, maybe not 2000 but I've taken hits over 1500.

[Lusche]

At 25K the maximum range of B17 guns is ~1400 yards when fired to the rear and ~1300 yards when fired abeam. You can test these things with the .target command.

When attacking pilots like APP, it's all about speed and angles. Against 'ordinary' players it might be sufficient just to avoid the 6 o'clock attack, but against those (very few) top gunners you should never go straight for the bomber from any angle. Your best bet is flying a cannon bird, doing a fast high frontal quarter attack with (from the gunners point of view) rapidly changing angles. Fire generously and let the bomber fly through your salvo.
Also, have an egress plan before attacking. You want to get some quick separation, but keep turning slightly both to throw his aim off as well as to get into a favorable position for your next attack.
Far too often I see fighters wasting too much E after their pass, thus having a hard time to get back into position.

Of course, no matter what you do, no victory is ever guaranteed. Every gunner can have a lucky day. 

[haggerty]

When I treat APP75 like he's auto ack he never hits me, but if my plane is ever on the same path for more than half a second, my plane is dead.  Most of the time he critically damages me about 1.5k out before I even think about firing.

[popeye]

Helps if you can attack the buffs when they are in a turn.  Often the outside drone will drift away and lose some of the protection of the others' guns.

[DubiousKB]

one of the biggest things I learned from 999 and buff gunnery; practise with the in-game targets at various heights, distances and angles to the bomber.

It is AMAZING at how different your group's Pattern will be, AND, the various leads required to actually put bullets where you want them.

Yes, HiTech help you, if you are at the convergence range in a fighter and the bomber group connects with you. Most times it's only one of the 3 that's actually hitting you.

I could make the same argument about some of the better bomber-killer pilots and those dastardly cannon rounds.

Speed & High angles of attack are your friend...

[1stpar3]

Come to think of it, when I attack bombers...like I would an Osti or wirb,I do ok. Watch out for the ole999,000 model Wirbs though He's deadly in any multi gun platform! I got him,but he got me too Yes I was dead when the bomb hit him....but I count it