Ta-152 Flight Model

[Lucifer]

Greetings,

First, this post is about improving game, not about pointing fingers

I have been flying the Ta-152 for years now, and since the latest update on its flight model (compression speed lowered), the advantages of flying it have become quite rare... To me, the remaining postive aspects of this fighter/interceptor are : speed, especially over 27k, and firepower (Mk-108, but super fragile for that plane, very easily damaged). Other than that, in Aces High, its really hard to find any advantages, compared to the top-tier planes available ingame, especially in ENY terms...

For many historians, the Ta-152 was the pinacle of piston fighters/interceptors during WWII : Pilots who had the chance to fly it said that was the best evolution of the FW190 concept, in terms of flying and combat capabilities. FW even authorized Kurt Tank to put his name on the model : the plane he and FW engineers built was simply fantastic.

In other available simulations, the Ta-152, in capable hands, is a dreadful opponent, capable of very effective combat manoevers, leading to impressive dogfights.

In Aces High, the Ta-152 is a mess : extremely unstable, incredibly heavy (even with 25% fuel or less), the only thing it can do well is fly straight, climb straight, or dive straight. Under 325mph, you simply cant do much during a fight, except... dive. Today in Aces High, you got better dogfight capabilities in a Me-110.G2 with 75% fuel than in a Ta-152 with 25%... i think there is something really wrong about the Ta-152H flight model here...

Could HTC please provide us the sources they used for the flight model ? Might really enlight us about what is happening for this plane here.

Thank you.

[Chalenge]

Count your blessings that you even have this aircraft to fly. I love it too, but you should never look a gift horse in the mouth.

[bangsbox]

there are a few people that seem to fly it rather well under 10K. Roping any EZ kill seekers.

[bustr]

In other available simulations, the Ta-152, in capable hands, is a dreadful opponent, capable of very effective combat manoevers, leading to impressive dogfights.

Other than your feelings about the difference in performance, how do you know those competitors are not fudging their perimeters to create exactly the feelings you are expressing? The usual path for getting Hitech to change the performance of any aircraft in his game, is you provide performance numbers from verifiable sources that show him his numbers may be off.

[FLS]

Greetings,

First, this post is about improving game, not about pointing fingers

I have been flying the Ta-152 for years now, and since the latest update on its flight model (compression speed lowered), the advantages of flying it have become quite rare... To me, the remaining postive aspects of this fighter/interceptor are : speed, especially over 27k, and firepower (Mk-108, but super fragile for that plane, very easily damaged). Other than that, in Aces High, its really hard to find any advantages, compared to the top-tier planes available ingame, especially in ENY terms...

For many historians, the Ta-152 was the pinacle of piston fighters/interceptors during WWII : Pilots who had the chance to fly it said that was the best evolution of the FW190 concept, in terms of flying and combat capabilities. FW even authorized Kurt Tank to put his name on the model : the plane he and FW engineers built was simply fantastic.

In other available simulations, the Ta-152, in capable hands, is a dreadful opponent, capable of very effective combat manoevers, leading to impressive dogfights.

In Aces High, the Ta-152 is a mess : extremely unstable, incredibly heavy (even with 25% fuel or less), the only thing it can do well is fly straight, climb straight, or dive straight. Under 325mph, you simply cant do much during a fight, except... dive. Today in Aces High, you got better dogfight capabilities in a Me-110.G2 with 75% fuel than in a Ta-152 with 25%... i think there is something really wrong about the Ta-152H flight model here...

Could HTC please provide us the sources they used for the flight model ? Might really enlight us about what is happening for this plane here.

Thank you.

Sounds like the other simulations you tried don't model adverse yaw.

When do you think the AH flight model was changed?

[Oldman731]

When do you think the AH flight model was changed?

...er...wasn't that way back when AH2 came out...?

- oldman

[RODBUSTR]

   It  had several stability issues that would make it yaw or spin. It had a small wing surface area compared to other planes designed to operate at higher alts, but that is typical for German WW2 fighters. It was very heavy because of many parts made from  steel rather than aluminum. It had appalling craftsmanship and quality control  I believe Hitler was the one who had the decree issued to name It the Ta 152.  Also if I recall British test pilot, Eric "Winkle" Brown was not a big fan of It do to the poor handling qualities.

[Vraciu]

   It  had several stability issues that would make it yaw or spin. It had a small wing surface area compared to other planes designed to operate at higher alts, but that is typical for German WW2 fighters. It was very heavy because of many parts made from  steel rather than aluminum. It had appalling craftsmanship and quality control  I believe Hitler was the one who had the decree issued to name It the Ta 152.  Also if I recall British test pilot, Eric "Winkle" Brown was not a big fan of It do to the poor handling qualities.

 

[bustr]

Found this for FW Ta152H -0/R11 , FE112, T2-112, ex4.


https://dp.la/item/80bb06e6164a5b9c2d5554f01c68189f  Probably came from this source: https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/focke-wulf-ta-152-h-0r11


 Extensive wood rot was found in where the horizontal stabilizer joins the vertical fin. The restoration staff speculated that during testing at Wright Field, pilots and engineers became concerned that the wooden tail may have been weakened by defective glues or sabotage. They strengthened the entire area with steel plate. However, this work may have compromised flight safety because it required moving the horizontal stabilizer forward several inches, exacerbating a tail-heavy condition already known to the Germans.


Interesting, didn't know the H models had been grounded while two C models were still flying at the end.


Between October 1944 and February 1945 when production ended, Focke-Wulf managed to roll 67 completed Ta 152 aircraft (H-0, H-1, and C-1 models) off the line but these fighters put on a disappointing show. Some aircraft were lost to engine fires while a variety of other engine problems and spares shortages grounded most of the fleet. By April 30, 1945, only two Ta 152C-1s remained operational. The Luftwaffe had grounded all H-models--an ignominious end for combat aircraft with great potential.

[Bushmills]

For many historians, the Ta-152 was the pinacle of piston fighters/interceptors during WWII : Pilots who had the chance to fly it said that was the best evolution of the FW190 concept, in terms of flying and combat capabilities. FW even authorized Kurt Tank to put his name on the model : the plane he and FW engineers built was simply fantastic.

In other available simulations, the Ta-152, in capable hands, is a dreadful opponent, capable of very effective combat manoevers, leading to impressive dogfights.

In Aces High, the Ta-152 is a mess : extremely unstable, incredibly heavy (even with 25% fuel or less), the only thing it can do well is fly straight, climb straight, or dive straight. Under 325mph, you simply cant do much during a fight, except... dive. Today in Aces High, you got better dogfight capabilities in a Me-110.G2 with 75% fuel than in a Ta-152 with 25%... i think there is something really wrong about the Ta-152H flight model here...

Could HTC please provide us the sources they used for the flight model ? Might really enlight us about what is happening for this plane here.

Thank you.

I think the best piston engined figher of the war quote was about the D9, the mission of the TA152 was to shoot down high altitude bombers, adapting a plane for a role as a high altitude interceptor compromises it at low or medium altitudes.

While its almost a certainty that HTC's modelling or anyone else's is not perfect, you can reason that it is closer than anyone elses because they have a very strict criteria for selecting and changing the figures they use.

[Bushmills]

Its also worth pointing out that its the pilot not the plane, when I played there were many pilots who could more than hold their own in a TA152. 

[RODBUSTR]

    As I have stated before.   If You want the best sim You can get in addition to stats,  Have the folks who flew Them analyze  the data and  flight models to give You input ... while a few are still around.  And  how good is good enough, or do You want to strive for perfection.  I read somewhere Ah didn't want to be the biggest sim, just the best.  I would think that if an issue with plane performance was raised HiTech would research the issue Themselve's and not wait for someone to bring the data directly to them... If You found It so could They. 

[Wiley]

I would think that if an issue with plane performance was raised HiTech would research the issue Themselve's and not wait for someone to bring the data directly to them... If You found It so could They.

Sure, if a legitimate issue was raised.  "It plays differently in another game" is pretty much meaningless.

Wiley.

[asterix]

In other available simulations, the Ta-152, in capable hands, is a dreadful opponent, capable of very effective combat manoevers, leading to impressive dogfights.

Pretty much my experience here, but it does not forgive mistakes at low speed.

[icepac]

It can rope and come over the top in control at 38mph.

The most common moves I see are vertical rope to loop stuff.