R-i-i-i-i-g-g-g-g-h-h-h-h-t.....

[Vulcan]

And falling.  While the aeroplane (for purposes of this exercise!) is maintaining a constant speed.

To my surprise, I couldn't readily locate a good ballistics chart for .50 BMG.

Might be easier to visualize if you think of the plane firing while climbing.  Plane then levels off, while bullets travel in an arc above it.  Given the right combination of angles, course and velocities, the bullets will come down on the plane.

- oldman

As I noted above the bullets coming down would be slow (ie no longer ballistic) and unlikely to damage an engine.

Sure the bullet is decelerating, but according the the table above it flies 3000 feet in 1.44 seconds. Assuming the P-38 is somehow going at 400mph, that's still only 586fps. Eveb if we decided to go full retard and took relative velocities away that P-38 is still going to be over 2000 feet behind the round at the 1.44 second mark, and still going more twice as fast as the P-38.

if by some miracle the P-38 got under the round in a dive and managed somehow to catchup to it, the round would be no longer ballistic, and the relative speed between the p-38 and round would negligible such that the 50 cal round would do NOTHING. For those who don't get this... imagine the P-38 has some how slipped in front of the 50 cal - and intersect it's arc, both are travelling at similar speeds in the same direction - so the 50 cal would have no destructive effect even if it did hit.

If by now you still don't get it, I have great deals on bridges.

[Oldman731]

If by now you still don't get it, I have great deals on bridges.

*looks at shiny hook*

*swims away*

- oldman

[BuckShot]

Would all of this be possible if the plane was on a treadmill?

[Delirium]

I find it far more likely he has some left over brass that found its way into his engine housing or was a friendly fire incident.

[Vraciu]

As I noted above the bullets coming down would be slow (ie no longer ballistic) and unlikely to damage an engine.

Sure the bullet is decelerating, but according the the table above it flies 3000 feet in 1.44 seconds. Assuming the P-38 is somehow going at 400mph, that's still only 586fps. Eveb if we decided to go full retard and took relative velocities away that P-38 is still going to be over 2000 feet behind the round at the 1.44 second mark, and still going more twice as fast as the P-38.

if by some miracle the P-38 got under the round in a dive and managed somehow to catchup to it, the round would be no longer ballistic, and the relative speed between the p-38 and round would negligible such that the 50 cal round would do NOTHING. For those who don't get this... imagine the P-38 has some how slipped in front of the 50 cal - and intersect it's arc, both are travelling at similar speeds in the same direction - so the 50 cal would have no destructive effect even if it did hit.

If by now you still don't get it, I have great deals on bridges.

And then he flew through the vertical....

I find it far more likely he has some left over brass that found its way into his engine housing or was a friendly fire incident.

The latter seems most plausible. 

[Curval]

Would all of this be possible if the plane was on a treadmill?

Beat me to it.   

[Drano]

Would all of this be possible if the plane was on a treadmill?

He could grip it  by the husk!


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[Meatwad]

It was pining for the fjords

[Bizman]

This has become an interesting thread!

Now I don't know anything about ballistics and material thicknesses, but I understand that if the bullet has been shot upwards it is possible to get where it is coming back down. I'd like to learn the answer to these questions:

How thick/strong is the cover of the radiator of a P38?
Could a free falling bullet penetrate said radiator cover?

Some 20 years ago there was a true story in the local newspaper about a unfortunate hunter who fired his rifle to shoot a wood grouse sitting in a nearby tree, the distance being like 100 metres/yards or so i.e. a normal shooting distance. He missed the bird, instead the bullet killed the hunter's own brother who was sitting at a fire 2 kilometres from there. How likely is it to hit with a single bird size rifle bullet compared to a burst of .50's out of machine guns?

[FESS67]

The quoted text in the OP is emotive given the mention of high speed and manoeuvres and leads us to think of amazing feats not possible in reality.   However, if we break it down simply then we can start to see how it is possible.

As I noted above the bullets coming down would be slow (ie no longer ballistic) and unlikely to damage an engine............
............................. ........If by now you still don't get it, I have great deals on bridges.

Vulcan, your thinking is wrong sir.  As Vraciu has tried to point out, you are failing to fully understand the vertical aspect of the equation.

As I read it your contention is that even if the plane and bullet could meet they would have similar relative velocities and so damage is unlikely.  That is a flawed conclusion.

If I throw a cricket ball or baseball horizontally and try to catch up with it I cannot.  However I can easily throw it with the same velocity and easily catch it if I change the angle I throw it to be more vertical and I use speed and manoeuvres to try to catch it.  When it comes down it has less energy than when I released it but it will damage me if it hits me.  I challenge you to stand under that ball and refute my statement.

Therefore it is equally possible to fire a bullet from an aircraft at a certain angle and have that same plane intersect the bullet coming down.  I will leave you to do the math but I am certain that bullect could inflict damage.

If you do not get that I have a great deal on bridge repair kits.  Let me know the delivery address.

[rabbidrabbit]

Would all of this be possible if the plane was on a treadmill?

No, as others have pointed out, there must be a vertical element for this to work out.  Hence, the need for an escalator rather than a treadmill.  Logic man..  logic.

[bustr]

Or it was a long distant stray from a friendly in another fight out of sight near by somewhere.

[Ciaphas]

If Dude did smoke his own engine with one of his rounds he is probably the most unlucky dude in the world considering bullet speed, trajectory and the degradation of the rounds impact due to friction constantly slowing the round.




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[nooby52]

All of this would be possible if the plane was on a treadmill.

Fixed.

[Vulcan]

The quoted text in the OP is emotive given the mention of high speed and manoeuvres and leads us to think of amazing feats not possible in reality.   However, if we break it down simply then we can start to see how it is possible.

Vulcan, your thinking is wrong sir.  As Vraciu has tried to point out, you are failing to fully understand the vertical aspect of the equation.

As I read it your contention is that even if the plane and bullet could meet they would have similar relative velocities and so damage is unlikely.  That is a flawed conclusion.

If I throw a cricket ball or baseball horizontally and try to catch up with it I cannot.  However I can easily throw it with the same velocity and easily catch it if I change the angle I throw it to be more vertical and I use speed and manoeuvres to try to catch it.  When it comes down it has less energy than when I released it but it will damage me if it hits me.  I challenge you to stand under that ball and refute my statement.

Therefore it is equally possible to fire a bullet from an aircraft at a certain angle and have that same plane intersect the bullet coming down.  I will leave you to do the math but I am certain that bullect could inflict damage.

If you do not get that I have a great deal on bridge repair kits.  Let me know the delivery address.

Nope. The bullet must be intercepted while it is still ballistic and able to do damage. If you look at the ballistic table linked above even at 3000 feet the 50 cal drop is only 28 feet vertically. And at 3000 feet the bullet speed drops to ~1000fps, and relative to the P-38 around 500fps.  I would wage in any scenario where the bullet intersects the plane again it has to go non-ballistic and dropping at terminal velocity only.

You keep ignoring the fact the bullet has to do damage when it hits, thus still needs be travelling fast relative to the P-38. (ie your cricket ball is not going to damage a P38)

Now, about the bridge you want to buy from me.