Author Topic: I Should've listened to Rip. (Read 4419 times)

hblair · « **Reply #30 on:** September 09, 2001, 11:57:00 AM »

Thoughts?, comments?

Vulcan · « **Reply #31 on:** September 09, 2001, 02:08:00 PM »

Has anyone confirmed the fuel modifier setting yet?

HB we didn't fly on WEP, we cruised. Makes me wonder. No A3 wasn't allied.

Rockets and DT's? Regurge that would be nice if the defences had been dropped already.

Still no confirmation on the fuel modifier? Is there anyway to find out from film?

Zippatuh · « **Reply #32 on:** September 09, 2001, 04:31:00 PM »

Comments by certain individuals need no reply, so I removed them.

Thanks banana and I apologize if any remarks I have made insulted you, or anyone else, personally.

Zippatuh

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]

Wanker · « **Reply #33 on:** September 09, 2001, 05:02:00 PM »

The fuel modifier was set at 1.5.

This whole thing is my fault, Vulcan, so I appologize to you and everyone else who ran out of fuel. The buck stops with me, I take full responsibilty. I'll do my best to make certain this doesn't happen again.

Vulcan · « **Reply #34 on:** September 09, 2001, 07:06:00 PM »

I think thats all we're after.

This whole thing has been inflamed by the 'take-it-like-men' corner.

BTW I won't be up this round NOT because of this issue but because I'm going skiing with some lovely Compaq people

Quote

Originally posted by banana:
I'll do my best to make certain this doesn't happen again.

funkedup · « **Reply #35 on:** September 10, 2001, 04:11:00 PM »

I'm sorry you guys ended up in that situation. Even at 1.5 fuel multiplier, we should still be able to get 500 miles or so with bombs at best cruise speed. But my tests are giving short ranges like you guys experienced. I think there might be a bug in the Hellcat fuel tank switching. I will look into it some more this weekend.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #36 on:** September 10, 2001, 05:10:00 PM »

Just had to chime in here, Hblair...who in their right mind flies at 10k alt deep in enemy territory with no escort?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** September 10, 2001, 05:25:00 PM »

And, for those calling the mission 'doable'..consider this:

Originally the mission was to launch from 6.6 sector. Then some dummy squeaked about it (me), the result was the CV was moved during the actual scenario, without MAG-33 leader MrPluto knowing what fuel, what load out could carry him how far, how fast, since he had no idea of the take off point of the CV. Now, I ask you, how many WW2 vets had missions where they had no idea where they would launch from until 15 min. before they climbed in the cockpit? I'll answer it for you, 0.
Nice things to know prior to a mission is where you will launch from, how much fuel it takes to get there, once you know these parameters, you can then plan the mission and ordnance accordingly, MAG-33 FL was missing this important information

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

hblair · « **Reply #38 on:** September 10, 2001, 06:02:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Just had to chime in here, Hblair...who in their right mind flies at 10k alt deep in enemy territory with no escort?

I would, except one change, I would turn 3 of the hellcats into sweeping escorts, give them a drop tank and no ordinance, let them WEP ahead of the jabo mission to about 18k, if they encounter baddies they can tangle with 'em and pull the fight to the deck. 10,000 ft is a very practical altitude considering the jabo's are carrying the heavy ordinance. 25,000ft for bomb laden fighters is bologna, unfortunately your guys found out the hard way. Not trying to sound smart, but I've been flying mostly axis in these aces high events for two years, every time I encounter allies they are higher than me, and sometimes I'd be at 28,000 ft. I finally decided that I'd let the alt monkeys be alt monkeys, I'd fly my own brand of mission, it seems to be paying off too.

BTW, whenever my squad has been assigned JU88's in the TOD's, we came in at an altitude of about 100ft, hasn't failed us yet. It may some day, but not yet.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #39 on:** September 10, 2001, 07:54:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:

I would, except one change, I would turn 3 of the hellcats into sweeping escorts, give them a drop tank and no ordinance, let them WEP ahead of the jabo mission to about 18k, if they encounter baddies they can tangle with 'em and pull the fight to the deck. 10,000 ft is a very practical altitude considering the jabo's are carrying the heavy ordinance. 25,000ft for bomb laden fighters is bologna, unfortunately your guys found out the hard way. Not trying to sound smart, but I've been flying mostly axis in these aces high events for two years, every time I encounter allies they are higher than me, and sometimes I'd be at 28,000 ft. I finally decided that I'd let the alt monkeys be alt monkeys, I'd fly my own brand of mission, it seems to be paying off too.

BTW, whenever my squad has been assigned JU88's in the TOD's, we came in at an altitude of about 100ft, hasn't failed us yet. It may some day, but not yet.

Sounds like a mission I would put together, however you fail to see the fact that we had 7 hangs to destroy, with 3 escort that leaves us short for ordnance on target.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #40 on:** September 10, 2001, 07:56:00 PM »

I might add, that anytime I'm flying barcap, and see high/low cons, I know automatically what the objective of the low group is...if they all come in at high alt, then, as defending BARCAP, I don't know what their mission objective is...attacking a lower group of heavy cons is easy, once you get past the escort (faking the HO) you simply dive, take out the heavy fighters in one pass, and extend home. Mission over for the guys with 10k alt.

You see, there is no one answer..especially when you have no idea what the distance to target is until right before the frame begins, as in MrPluto and MAG-33's case.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

Regurge · « **Reply #41 on:** September 11, 2001, 12:36:00 AM »

Well Rip, by your logic Ki-61s escorting Ju-88s and intercepted by a superior number of F4Us would never make it. But go read the AARs.

I agree you were dealt a crappy hand. The original mission left no chance to survive. The mission as excecuted was very difficult at best, and only if you picked the right loadout with no time to plan.

The fact is, there were a couple of fuel/ordinance combinations that would have gotten you to the target with the ability to do some damage and, with a bit of luck, rtb. But you had to believe that maybe you could do it without bombs, and without 25k of alt.

C'mon guys, have some faith in yourselves

Sancho · « **Reply #42 on:** September 11, 2001, 04:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:

Sounds like a mission I would put together, however you fail to see the fact that we had 7 hangs to destroy, with 3 escort that leaves us short for ordnance on target.

Then why not just blow up how ever many hangars you can. There are 3 frames in the TOD. What you miss in one frame you can go back and hit next time. Bombing missions aren't always 100% successful. Knocking out 50% of Japanese hangars at an airfield will definitely be noticed by our ground crews.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #43 on:** September 11, 2001, 07:56:00 AM »

Well, to be honest, all this discussion is definately easier with hindsite, since hindsite is always 20/20.

Guess I'm not used to seeing MAG_33 not fulfil their goals, but in this case, it was not their fault since A) they didn't know where they would be launching from...and B) Their CO was alittle disgruntled at the mission planning. Pluto did the best he could considering the hand he was dealt...and I doubt anyone would have done better.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]