Great fun guys

[snafu]

Hi All,
 Gotta admit I can see nothing wrong with the execution of the frame by the Axis forces, I am just a "Grunt" in the Allied machine and comprehensively got my bellybutton whooped last night   but if the attack had happened so late that an RTB within the alloted time frame had been impossible then this sucks, but assuming (and this is an assumption on my part) that an RTB was possible. I see no problem.

<S> all
TTFN
snafu

[skernsk]

Our squad rolled at the beginning of the frame and did not see ONE single enemy plane.  

We enjoyed our tour of the southeast coast of Mindanao.  

hblair used the FDB's in a way no other CO had before.  He put us away from the action so we wouldn' fek up the frame for the Axis.  He tasked us to kill a target that was "undamagable" and without seeing a single enemy only two of us survived the damn frame!  

Well done hb..........<finger>

[Dinger]

I was the fool in the N1K who got shot down over A1, but I stayed and watched the rest of the scenario.

Nash, the Axis command net was all on a private channel.  Most Axis flyers (myself included) didn't know of all the ops that were going on; I mean, I knew we had to have bombers somewhere, but their status was unknown.
Yes, someone asked if it was safe to RTB; it was probably inappropriate to do so.
The CM asked a question about inbound strikes, but from my perspective, it sounded like the question was pointed towards the allies.
Nevertheless, someone did inform the CM that Axis had strikes inbound, and the CM did communicate that fact to both sides.  If anyone has a film of the scenario, you'll see that that did indeed happen.

All flights were down and the arena was reset before T+2 hours.

Now, as for tactics:
Bomb strikes often tend to be more effective the later in the frame they occur -- the hope is that the number of enemy fighters will be reduced.  Of course, the risk is that all friendly fighters will be wiped out.   As it was, the Allies ran a p38 blitz at the start, risking the other way: that the Axis wouldn't be able to organize in time to thwart the attack; that way they'd have a full fighter force later in the frame.
The FTDs got picked up, and there wasn't anybody left an hour into the frame.  So some Axis puke asks if there's a point to staying in the air.

[funkedup]

OK Nash, you are now out of line.  I have been going out of my way to be courteous towards the Allied personnel after the tough night they had, and I admonished my squadron to do so also, but you are being such a poor sport that I can no longer hold my tongue.  

You are hinting that Hblair did something wrong, but you have yet to point out a rules violation, and you have yet to point out a violation of any "code of conduct" that I have ever seen applied in the dozens of S3/SL/TOD/Major Scenarios that I have flown.  In fact The only code of conduct violations I saw last night were coming from Allied pilots abusing channel 1.

 

Or what if next frame the Allies get on the runway and sit for 3 hours before rolling...

There is a 2 hour time limit.  The frame would be over and the logs closed.  Please try this if you want to lose even worse than last night.

 

We all wanna win, right? So why not? And what better way of ensuring that, than making sure there aint even anyone around to stop ya. What the hell.. brilliant plan.

Yes we ensured that you guys weren't around by SHOOTING DOWN EVERY ONE OF YOUR FREAKING PLANES.  

So what should Axis have done?  You seem to be upset that we completely destroyed your air forces and then mauled your naval forces.

Should we have NOT shot down all your planes?  

Should we have made sure to attack your CV while you had CAP over it?

Next time should we announce that we are attacking your CV, and what time we will be there?

Should the CM end the frame if one side is completely destroyed?  That's what I mean by "skunk rule".  It's a courtesy extended in many games.  If one team has no points, and the other team reaches a certain threshold, then the match is ended so that the suffering of the losers is not prolonged.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to adopt that rule for TOD.  Is that what you are looking for?

And If there were Allied pilots who left before the end of the frame who weren't shot down, then they should be reconsider registering for TOD.  Don't sign up for a two-hour event if you aren't willing to stay for two hours.  If people have real life obligations (one of my guys got called back to work) then it is not a problem, but if people are just getting bored and logging before the end of the frame, I suggest they not register for this event in the future.

Of course I'd much rather see everybody on the Allied side suck it up, renew their dedication to the series, fly the full two hours, and kick our butts all over the map next week.

[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[SOB]

I think the two hours should be used to their fullest, taking into account the need to RTB before the logs are closed.  Other than that, I don't see how you could take issue with it.  But, I wasn't there so I won't blather on about it.

I would like to comment on Funked's "skunk rule" suggestion tho'.  I'd hate it.  Everone logs in to the TOD to perform a mission and should be allowed to complete that mission.  If one side is destroyed in quick order, then they should just have to live with the losses, even if that means unopposed bombing after re-arms.  I could be wrong or missing something, but I think the 2 hour rule is a good limiter.


SOB

[-ammo-]

well I had no idea myself where any of the axis forces were during this frame with the exception of my own, wotans group mentioned where they were, and funked relayed his position many times during the frame. My crew of 6 had CAP duty of P34 and we encountered F6f's which were dispatched. It got really quiet down there after that. We patrolled the area and knew that an allied CV was close. Upon looking at my film it was indeed close (appears that way) however we saw no activity from it until we finally rtb'ed an hour after the frame started.

I did find it unusuall that I didnt see com's from the assasins, FDB's, and whoever elkse were flyign axis. But I didnt care, I figured they had their own sandbox to play in.

My only complaint is the lack of enenmies. I hype these things all week getting my guys geared torward coming and promise action and then the action is pretty scarce. I know that the same thing happened to some squads in the last TOD. I just want my guys to have a good time, and that mean expending ammo.

[Nash]

Yeah, I really shouldn't have said anything, and I told hblair elsewhere that I can't blame him at all for the the mission he put together. Fact is I was totally frustrated by a number of things last night, including a costly breakdown by our own side in carrying out its orders, having to deal with a couple of people on our country channel who were completely out to lunch ("I hate F6F's whaaa!" or "P38's against Nikis is BS!") - for almost the entire two hours, 2 entire squads showing up that had zero idea what their orders were in the 1st place, many many no-shows (the list goes on)... And when I saw our CVs go down long after an RTB discussion on ch 1, it bothered me.

I actually was unaware there was a 2 hour time limit, and I didn't think Ju-88's could stay airborne at a 1.5 fuel modifier for the time it took to make this attack... so from my POV it just looked dubious. Turns out they did roll at the start, but flew an indirect course, NOE at only 40 manifold. So, yeah, it was all above board. A good plan - and again, I can't blame him for putting it together.

I apologize for bringing it up here.

<S>

[Dinger]

<S> Nash.  Get the allied morale up, and come back and kick some bellybutton next week.

[sax]

2 entire squads showing up up with zero idea of their mission orders, 13th tas being one.

Hey, Nash, I apologize for the inconveniance, but I,m sure Rude had other things on his mind besides this game.

6 of our squad did show however cause we figured showing up blind was better than no coming at all.

Daddog gave us an objective, we took care of buisiness , and then played it by ear.

I would suggest that CO's give the mission planners 1 or 2 other squaddies e-mail address for access to orders so this doesn't happen again.

Ya did good with what you had Nash<S>

Sax

[funkedup]

Nash no grudges here.  <S>

Thanks to all who showed up despite communications breakdowns.  I didn't realize that so many guys were incommunicado or skipping this one.

[daddog]

<S> Glad you guys worked this out.
hb how many ships you sink? Logs only show one. Thought it was more than that.  I want to make sure the Axis get full credit.

[Dinger]

Ghost called out live a sunk (by the AKs), and a CV damaged.  Then he seemed caught by surprise when the message "Field 18 has been captured by the knights" came across after the Assassins sunk the other CV.

[Ghosth]

Daddog, personally saw the cruiser sunk from the S CV group. Also the CV was sunk from the N Task force.

[hblair]

AKCurly (Arabian Knights) got the southern Cruiser, DaJudge (Assassins) got the northern Carrier.

[hblair]

Originally posted by Nash:
Yeah, I really shouldn't have said anything, and I told hblair elsewhere that I can't blame him at all for the the mission he put together. Fact is I was totally frustrated by a number of things last night, including a costly breakdown by our own side in carrying out its orders, having to deal with a couple of people on our country channel who were completely out to lunch ("I hate F6F's whaaa!" or "P38's against Nikis is BS!") - for almost the entire two hours, 2 entire squads showing up that had zero idea what their orders were in the 1st place, many many no-shows (the list goes on)... And when I saw our CVs go down long after an RTB discussion on ch 1, it bothered me.

I actually was unaware there was a 2 hour time limit, and I didn't think Ju-88's could stay airborne at a 1.5 fuel modifier for the time it took to make this attack... so from my POV it just looked dubious. Turns out they did roll at the start, but flew an indirect course, NOE at only 40 manifold. So, yeah, it was all above board. A good plan - and again, I can't blame him for putting it together.

I apologize for bringing it up here.

<S>

No problem here nash. Glad to see we're back on good terms, no hard feelings.
<S>