Lt. John C. Donnell, Jr. - P-51D "PIN UP GIRL" (L2*V) - 479th FG, 434th FS

[Vraciu]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

434 squadron P-51's - looks like black strips to me..

Yes, but I have about fifty without them--one even has them removed except on the left elevator (the stab doesn't have them).





http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/1

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/2

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries/479th-fighter-squadron/nggallery/page/3


As time goes on you see no stripes.   So this airplane may have had them when it was just PIN UP GIRL but may not have had them by the time the girl figure was added (and the other name on the right side which I have no photos of).

[Mister Fork]

Another squad mate from 434 - Lt James A Bouchier's P-51D.

[Devil 505]

I think it would be a good idea to date these photos, if possible.

[Mister Fork]

Could be a timing thing. The pictures you posted look like they have the rear-view mirrors on them - and since they were only operational just before D-day, could be a timeline thing? I'm guessing maybe the P-51's from early 45?

Major Olds P-51 pictured above (that one was SCAT#5) went through aircraft like mechanics go through sockets... and by war's end was flying #VII. 

So, black-strip, no black-strip, depends on the timeline I guess.

[Vraciu]

Could be a timing thing. The pictures you posted look like they have the rear-view mirrors on them - and since they were only operational just before D-day, could be a timeline thing? I'm guessing maybe the P-51's from early 45?

Major Olds P-51 pictured above (that one was SCAT#5) went through aircraft like mechanics go through sockets... and by war's end was flying #VII. 

So, black-strip, no black-strip, depends on the timeline I guess.

No mirrors.  No stripes.

Definitely they become rarer in 1945.  "PIN UP GIRL" was downed that February.

[Vraciu]

I think it would be a good idea to date these photos, if possible.

I don't see any dates.  That American Air Museum website might have them though...

[Mister Fork]

I don't see any dates.  That American Air Museum website might have them though...

Yeah, that is where I was doing my research - no dates but we do have something from the museum's website on the 434...

Lets focus on Olds' P-51's. Since Olds was assigned SCAT#5 in August WITH the black strip, and SCAT#5 with the 434 had the black stripe as did Bouchier's bird - and Bouchier lost that P-51D in December due to friendly-fire.  Pin-Up-Girl was lost in the spring of 45. And I know for a fact that SCAT VII had no black stripe - she was assigned to Olds in the spring of 45. Therefore...

...it's probably a safe bet that PUG had no black stripe at the time she went down.

[Vraciu]

Yeah, that is where I was doing my research - no dates but we do have something...

Lets focus on Olds' P-51's. Since Olds was assigned SCAT#5 in August WITH the black strip, and SCAT#5 with the 434 had the black stripe as did Bouchier's bird - and Bouchier lost that P-51D in December due to friendly-fire.  Pin-Up-Girl was lost in the spring of 45. And I know for a fact that SCAT VII had no black stripe - she was assigned to Olds in the spring of 45. Therefore...

...it's probably a safe bet that PUG had no black stripe at the time she went down.

Seems reasonable to me, especially in light of photo evidence that shows stripes were removed.   

[lyric1]

 

[Guppy35]

From the 479th FG Group History.   She clearly had depot applied black ID bands.  Note the lack of serial number on the tail, probably removed when they painted the rudder color

[Vraciu]

Good find, but these are all before Lt. Donnell took over the airplane (and certainly well prior to his crash).  What I really need more than anything is one that shows the girl AND the wing bands.

If only I could read the names on the fuselage.    

Excellent photos.  Some insight to be gained here.  The red on the chin inlet is something I wanted to know.  Same with the s/n.  Also the V is unusual.   Thank you.   

[Guppy35]

The pilot in the above images is Hollister.  This is Donnell.  Pin up art there, black wing bands too.

[Vraciu]

Gold mine.   That’s what I needed.

Where did you find these?

[Guppy35]

Understand that as new birds were sent to the groups they came to them with the latest Depot applied markings.  That stopped in early 45 when they quit with the black bands.  It didn't mean that planes all had them removed immediately.  This was done as time and manpower allowed.  All the photo evidence shows the standard Depot markings.  As Donnell went down in January 45, the odds of them having been removed are slim considering the images are from December 44.

All the images are from the 479th FG history by Terry Fairfield.

Note the mention of the right side name which was "Murial from Troy", which was the crew chief's wife from Troy New York

[Vraciu]

I’m aware that bands were not immediately removed.  But with nothing else to go on I was leaning toward them having been removed based on photos showing that very thing done to other airplanes in the squadron.  He was downed 15 February.   It is still a possibility, but at this point academic as you have eliminated most of the need for conjecture with these pics.  I can at least skin the bands knowing they were there at some point with the updated nose art. 

Thanks for digging them up.