Author Topic: End of Full Dar  (Read 19686 times)

Offline Biggles

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2018, 12:06:33 PM »
I do not know why they leave.  If you (they) are looking for more action, maybe HT could make the maps smaller , you know like a5X5 square grid area. And a  universal radar.

A have noticed, the enemy CV groups are not shown or maybe I haven't noticed.

Bring back the old pizza and beer bottle map!  ;)

Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2018, 12:35:05 PM »
Vraciu, the point at issue is the meaning of "can't find a fight".  I interpret this literally, meaning that the speaker can't find a fight under any circumstances.
Again, anyone can switch countries and get stuck for four or six hours along with having ENY...
One usually doesn’t have to switch countries, but it you just “want a fight”, why not?  (Answer is that you want a fight, but under special circumstances).  Also note your mention of ENY, which would be irrelevant if you just “wanted a fight”. 

You clearly don't.  Your last post contains all sorts of implications to this effect, e.g. "I fight smartly" (sic).
My post was a refutation of your assertion that the only reason I can't find a fight is I am looking for some mythical "conditions (sic) of advantage" fight.  Untrue.
See above. 

If all you needed was "a fight", that wouldn't matter.  But you want fights which are enjoyable.
I want any fight at all.  ANY.   Taking four bases unopposed even after announcing our intentions on 200 is neither enjoyable nor "a fight" of any kind.
See above. 

That is not unreasonable, but to avoid the type of criticism you are complaining about, you need to make it clear as to what you sometimes lack; i.e. not fights per se, but enjoyable fights.
Do not put words in my mouth, sir.
My statement to you is advice, not attribution. 

That's why I used the term disingenuous-ness (misspelled), because you are clearly intelligent enough to understand the difference I outline above.
And you are clearly intelligent enough to stop building strawmen and stick to the very real issues brought up in this thread (and others) that prompted this entire experiment in the first place.
The issue of whether or not it is difficult to “find fights”, as claimed by a vocal minority of Forum posters, is central to this thread.  My recent posts directly address this questionable claim, and are therefore directly relevant.  I sure hope that HiTech is proceeding based on his own data, rather than complaints by this vocal minority. 

Finally I see no “strawmen” here; please clarify. 

MH

Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2018, 12:37:27 PM »
HT should just make another areana with GVs only no GV dar just flashing bases like the old days when it was fun. The let the guys that just want air combat have the Malee arena with the dar as it is now. Let people have a choice of how they want to play.

I've suggested this before, but got flamed.  I admit it risks thinning out the MA more though, but even a 2-versus-2 GV fight is fun if you can avoid being bombed while doing it (and before the "GV dar" changes).  So it could work.  My theory is that HTC would gain more players than they would lose, but that's easy for me to say. 

MH
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 12:41:42 PM by TDeacon »

Offline Vraciu

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2018, 12:50:05 PM »
One usually doesn’t have to switch countries, but it you just “want a fight”, why not?  (Answer is that you want a fight, but under special circumstances).  Also note your mention of ENY, which would be irrelevant if you just “wanted a fight”. 

This is my last reply to you on this topic.  You appear to have no interest in learning the dynamics of the game as it stands today.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.  It's getting stale.


I am not going to switch countries to find a fight.   I tried that.   Even paid for a second account to do it.  It doesn't work.  You wind up ENY'd and then once again on the short end of the stick with an occasional fight all the way across the map and no ability to switch to it, or chasing the same ghosts only under a different country's chess piece.  If I want to be stuck in garbage rides or by myself with nothing to do--or both--I will go to the WWI arena or offline.

"Only 30 players in the game."  Do the math.

Hitech appears to be trying to address this issue.   I'm glad.   And it is working.   I've found more fights over the last four days I've been on than in weeks.


Quote

See above. 
See above. 

My statement to you is advice, not attribution. 
The issue of whether or not it is difficult to “find fights”, as claimed by a vocal minority of Forum posters, is central to this thread.  My recent posts directly address this questionable claim, and are therefore directly relevant.  I sure hope that HiTech is proceeding based on his own data, rather than complaints by this vocal minority. 

Advice from someone who hasn't been here for nine months?

See above.


Quote
Finally I see no “strawmen” here; please clarify. 

MH

See above.

/Discussion

I'm done here.  Get back to me after you've been back for awhile.  Perhaps then we will be speaking the same lingo.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 12:58:44 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2018, 12:55:56 PM »
I think what is motivating this type of observation is that the "can't find a fight" argument isn't literally true (!!!).

No, it is often literally true. "I can't find a fight" = the only enemies I see anywhere on the board are circling around at 30k waiting to jump on whoever tries to climb to them, and if they don't get a kill on the first pass, or if they see anyone less than 5k below them, they will dive out and run to ack or a gaggle of other friendlies, who are also circling around at 30k looking for picks. That is not a fight.

The new setting have only made this worse, though. I don't think I've ever seen half as many people above 25k even with the old numbers. And they don't want to fight even up there, they want to be immune to any chance of engagement and will run away as soon as anything threatens that.

As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.

Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2018, 12:58:52 PM »
This is my last reply to you on this topic.  You appear to have no interest in learning the dynamics of the game as it stands today.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.  It's getting stale.


I am not going to switch countries to find a fight.   I tried that.   Even paid for a second account to do it.  It doesn't work.  You wind up ENY'd and then once again on the short end of the stick with an occasional fight all the way across the map and no ability to switch to it, or chasing the same ghosts only under a different country's chess piece.  If I want to be stuck in garbage rides or by myself with nothing to do--or both--I will go to the WWI arena or offline.

"Only 30 players in the game."  Do the math.

Hitech appears to be trying to address this issue.   I'm glad.   And it is working.   I've found more fights over the last four days I've been on than in weeks.


Advice from someone who hasn't been here for nine months?

See above.


See above.

/Discussion

I'm done here.  Get back to me after you've been back for awhile.  Perhaps then we will be speaking the same lingo.

Always interested in "learning".  Less interested in disingenuous, sleazy debate techniques, however.  (Putting words in your mouth ???). 

WRT "learning", maybe I will learn something here.  As I suggested earlier, I have never had difficulty finding fights, including in off-hours; just in finding acceptably enjoyable fights.  Hence I don't claim I "can't find fights".  Are you telling me that there is a personal ENY penalty associated with changing sides?  Meaning distinct from the ENY differences consequent on country numbers.  Since I rarely change sides, I haven't noticed such a personal ENY penalty (i.e. applying just to the player doing the changing).  Enlighten me please.  Or not. 

MH
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:01:11 PM by TDeacon »

Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2018, 01:05:49 PM »
No, it is often literally true. "I can't find a fight" = the only enemies I see anywhere on the board are circling around at 30k waiting to jump on whoever tries to climb to them, and if they don't get a kill on the first pass, or if they see anyone less than 5k below them, they will dive out and run to ack or a gaggle of other friendlies, who are also circling around at 30k looking for picks. That is not a fight.

The new setting have only made this worse, though. I don't think I've ever seen half as many people above 25k even with the old numbers. And they don't want to fight even up there, they want to be immune to any chance of engagement and will run away as soon as anything threatens that.

As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.

I see a semantic issue here.  To me, what you describe is a fight, just not an enjoyable one.  I realize it's difficult to wade through all the crap which has been going back and forth between Vraciu and me, but I did in one post mention this semantic issue.

Point is, I'm not saying your concerns are not important.  I'm just saying that IMHO we need to distinguish between not being able to find a fight AT ALL / UNDER ANY CONDITIONS, and finding one which occurs in an enjoyable context.  Reason is, the solutions to the 2 problems, as implemented by HTC would likely be different.  So we need to communicate clearly as to what we are hoping for. 

MH 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:17:33 PM by TDeacon »

Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2018, 01:12:03 PM »
(text removed)
As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.

We may or may not have them now, but my perception is that we have been losing GV players in the last several years.  It was pretty good back when we had Trinity, for example.  We may also have lost more of the remnants since the GV dar was added (though I haven't been playing since that was added in, so that's just my guess). 

Anyway if my overall perception is correct, a separate arena would have retained them, solving that issue.  Maybe even might lure some back.  For example, I have a friend who had a trial sub once, and with whom I played in the "free" mini-arenas from several years ago (forgot the correct term for them).  He was into tanks, but didn't want to be bombed constantly, and wasn't that into planes.  So he didn't renew.  Since he wasn't into planes, a GV-only arena wouldn't have removed him from the MA, but it would have added his $15-per-month to the pot. 

MH
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:24:29 PM by TDeacon »

Offline ccvi

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2018, 02:10:17 PM »
"Only 30 players in the game."

And here lies the problem. Those 30 players in the game isn't 30 players in the game 24/7. Those 30 players in the game is only during certain times of the day. To get it up to 30 players per side numbers would need to tripple, and that would imply a pretty well-populated arena at prime-time.

The world's population is distributed around the globe. North america is only 8.3% (*) of all internet users. Even neglecting China hidden behind the great firewall, there's a lot of untapped potential outside of the current target market. With potential players that could fill the server at times at which it is deserted today.

(*)https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Offline Traveler

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2018, 02:10:44 PM »
None of these issues would exists if the numbers were still 600 on a weekend prime time.  HTC has determined it's the fault of the radar, and will adjust it and tell themselves , yes that's the problem and we addressed it.  There was a company once , we'll call it Big Tobacco, losing customer base, shrinking sales,  in a poor economy .  Even though they were selling a product that if you used it , will kill you, they increased sales, market share and customer base world wide, by cutting prices of the base product by more than half.  They charge different prices for the same product in different parts of the world.  US  8 to 10 dollars a pack, China 50 cents a pack, they get what the market will bare.   Perhaps in the world of online gaming , the market will no longer support $15.00 per month.   I wonder how the game would sell if you could buy up front a full year subscription at a discount?  perhaps a two for one sale, by two months, pay just for one.   I think HTC is chasing it’s tail.  The problem is not with the radar, I don’t remember people screaming for better graphics,  So no improvements to AH2 for almost two years while we waited for AH3 and that drove away a lot of the player base.  It’s not the radar, it’s not the GV play, it’s not the aircraft Play,  it’s the number of players and that translates to price to play and in todays world $14.99 is just to much.   HTC needs more players and the only way to get more players is cut your prices, enough to attract a new player base that will support game play.
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #100 on: August 06, 2018, 02:21:28 PM »
I see a semantic issue here.  To me, what you describe is a fight, just not an enjoyable one.  I realize it's difficult to wade through all the crap which has been going back and forth between Vraciu and me, but I did in one post mention this semantic issue.

Point is, I'm not saying your concerns are not important.  I'm just saying that IMHO we need to distinguish between not being able to find a fight AT ALL / UNDER ANY CONDITIONS, and finding one which occurs in an enjoyable context.  Reason is, the solutions to the 2 problems, as implemented by HTC would likely be different.  So we need to communicate clearly as to what we are hoping for. 


While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.

If they were willing to press home the attack, even with the huge E advantage I'd call that a fight. but lately it seems like too many guys can't even be bothered to do that. This is particularly true late at night when it seems all anyone wants to do is pork strats and sneak bases. Usually in prime time I can find some kind of fight. base takes usually generate a good one, even if it is at a disadvantage.

One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #101 on: August 06, 2018, 02:30:15 PM »
While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.

If they were willing to press home the attack, even with the huge E advantage I'd call that a fight. but lately it seems like too many guys can't even be bothered to do that. This is particularly true late at night when it seems all anyone wants to do is pork strats and sneak bases. Usually in prime time I can find some kind of fight. base takes usually generate a good one, even if it is at a disadvantage.

One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.

He misses the point.   There are times where you literally CANNOT FIND A FIGHT ANYWHERE.    You fly all over the map chasing dar bars.   I've seen it enough to know it is not an aberration.

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Offline Dragdad

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #102 on: August 06, 2018, 02:39:46 PM »
Would someone please post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. Thank you.

You mean "if"?

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Offline ccvi

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2018, 02:50:40 PM »
It’s not the radar, it’s not the GV play, it’s not the aircraft Play,  it’s the number of players and that translates to price to play and in todays world $14.99 is just to much.   HTC needs more players and the only way to get more players is cut your prices, enough to attract a new player base that will support game play.

Or maybe the opposite. Many of us are probably addicted enough to stay at 50$/month. Even with 50% players lost that would still be a gain. Those who would be too addicated to leave and still want to play would end up in the h2h-rooms. Populated h2h-rooms are the foundation to create new addicts.

The only problem with this would be the lowly populated main arena.

Offline Kodiak

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »
I'm back after a couple of years, and I like the full radar overall, except for the bombers.  From what I've seen in the past week, there is pretty much no point in upping a bomber right now.

Hopefully, HiTech will either make their icon the same size as fighters, or not show an icon for bombers at all.

But the full radar on fighters let's you find a "right sized" fight from a distance.  If you are flying alone or with just one wingman, you can avoid being jumped by a squad of 5 or 6 guys, but instead find a knife fight against a couple of red guys that will often be much more fun (unless you're a super ninja pilot who can take on 5 or 6 guys).

Most newbs don't have a squad to associate with, and are pretty much on their own, and full radar gives them a chance to avoid odds where they are hopelessly outnumbered.

So after thinking about it for the past week (and hating it at first), I like full radar for fighters due to the "right sized" fights you can find (or you can dive into a furball if you prefer).  :aok

Just the opinion of one new "old" customer  :cheers:

P.S.  I brought a young relative in as a new Aces High player this time (he's still a teenager), and so far he's having fun (other than flying bombers).  And I've been taking him to "right sized" fights, so he's been practicing more than just taking off, as I've been able to keep things pretty much stirred up for more than two turns against a couple of red guys if he stays close  ;)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 04:08:08 PM by Kodiak »