88s

[Ciaphas]

I agree with kills of occupied manned guns counting as a player kill just like any other kill.

There several other issues with manned guns and also with mobile AAA also raised in this thread. I think a 1-2 minute spawn penalty should be applied to a recently killed operator of any AAA item attempting to take another one from the same base. Planes and battle tanks should be instantly available, but not AAA.

A minute would be way to long. If a time restriction were placed on them I would imagine something more in the realm of 15-30 seconds but an alternative would be to reduce the ammo load by 1/4 with each relaunch after death from that specific base.


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[Slade]

I agree with kills of occupied manned guns counting as a player kill just like any other kill.

+1

[ccvi]

What is any other kill? Count them as fighters? GVs? In attack or also fighter mode? Or just for the relatively meaningless "landed xy kills" message?

Edit: And if only for the message, does it count towards the achievement to land XX kills?

[pembquist]

88's are machines

This whole "time invested" ideology is nothing more than an individual projection of what you consider to be quality time invested. It varies player to player.

How the player gets to a base to defend makes little difference. The fact that someone is defending the base is all that matters.

As has already been stated a dozen times, there is always a risk when you up and fly to an enemy target. like it or leave it, it is what it is.

however, I do think that Hitech should add risk for the manned AAA. perk the positions, award kills to the victor (both gun emplacement and player). seriously limit the amount of shells that the 88 holds and maybe slow the reload speed a titch.



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With respect, I do not believe I was being obscure when I used the word machines as short cut for aircraft, ground vehicles, pt boats.

My comment was not a statement of ideology but an analysis of why the 88 is irritating or not. You are quite correct that the experience of the dynamic varies from player to player however I believe that more players than not are irritated by the presence of the 88 when a base is not under heavy attack. I do not have data, you do not have data so this will never be resolved as far as that goes, however that is really the crux of the biscuit as it doesn't matter what is "right" but whether or not the game is more fun than not to play.

I certainly think that the suggestions you make for modifying how the 88 fits into game play could be improvements over the status quo. What I don't understand is why you reject out of hand that the difference in player experience with regard to time and commitment that an aircraft pilot makes versus an 88 gunner is the reason that pilots find them annoying since the changes you suggest seem to be an attempt to require of the gunner more time and commitment.

[Ciaphas]

With respect, I do not believe I was being obscure when I used the word machines as short cut for aircraft, ground vehicles, pt boats.

Calling a duck a duck and a dog a dog.

My comment was not a statement of ideology but an analysis of why the 88 is irritating or not. You are quite correct that the experience of the dynamic varies from player to player however I believe that more players than not are irritated by the presence of the 88 when a base is not under heavy attack. I do not have data, you do not have data so this will never be resolved as far as that goes, however that is really the crux of the biscuit as it doesn't matter what is "right" but whether or not the game is more fun than not to play.

What causes irritation is a matter of personal preference and nothing more. The 88 is a defensive weapon and when used properly is very effective but not so effective that it becomes some super weapon that kills everything in sight, it is a tool that we can use, so why not use it regardless of the situation.

I certainly think that the suggestions you make for modifying how the 88 fits into game play could be improvements over the status quo. What I don't understand is why you reject out of hand that the difference in player experience with regard to time and commitment that an aircraft pilot makes versus an 88 gunner is the reason that pilots find them annoying since the changes you suggest seem to be an attempt to require of the gunner more time and commitment.

The changes I recommend are there to give reward to the pilot for their perceived risk in attacking the manned gun positions and to add a risk to the gunner manning the position. Nothing lost is nothing gained ideology.

Both sides of the field reject out of hand the difference in player experience with regard to time and commitment. Pilots should find them annoying, just like gunners should find rockets annoying and buff drivers find patrolling aircraft annoying. If you do find them annoying, then they are doing their job.

[Oldman731]

the crux of the biscuit

I like that expression!  Thanks, I believe I can put it to wide use.

That's just one of the nice benefits of AH, we're always getting new ideas.

- oldman

[lunaticfringe]

if you want to wish for something, wish for the air to ground rockets did a wider splash damage like they did in AH2-then all a rocket or HE rounds had to do is hit close, now they have hit directly on the target, I have watched enough RL films to know that not all rockets directly hit there target but hit close enough to cause great damage. this alone would help with you're 88 problem. just saying.

[ccvi]

if you want to wish for something, wish for the air to ground rockets did a wider splash damage like they did in AH2-then all a rocket or HE rounds had to do is hit close, now they have hit directly on the target, I have watched enough RL films to know that not all rockets directly hit there target but hit close enough to cause great damage. this alone would help with you're 88 problem. just saying.

I haven't measured the distance, but a direct hit with rockets is surely not required for auto and mannable ack.

[Slade]

What causes irritation is a matter of personal preference and nothing more.

I agree 100%.  Reality does not care what humans with personalities and egos think.

As a human, I still have preferences and that is that 88's be used in the air defense role primarily used in WWII.

Being a little silly...otherwise they could rename the game 88's Low! LOL


All good.  Love this game.  Its just a preference.  A wish.

[save]

What is any other kill? Count them as fighters? GVs? In attack or also fighter mode? Or just for the relatively meaningless "landed xy kills" message?

Edit: And if only for the message, does it count towards the achievement to land XX kills?

Count them as trees 

[bustr]

Not sure what the real problem is here, I get hit maybe once every three tours by an 88 while I'm flying close to a field.

If someone can hit anything in the air with an 88, that is quite some accomplishment. If I want to hit things with an 88 online, I have to spend about a week offline on my gunnery terrain practicing from 5-7k against the drone circle to tune up my timing for the fuse, plane travel, and drop off the back side of the arc. And yes I listened to at least two players talk about creating a clear plastic monitor over lay with aiming guides for the fuse\range drop. I still don't see much lazer guided slaughtering of planes around feilds. Those kinds of aids can be problematic just like thinking my offline terrain where I can spawn a wirble 800yds from the drone circle will make it possible for me to wipe out all fighters at a field online. The Internet more often laughs at all of this when I'm online shooting at other players while I'm duplicating the lead and sight picture from my offline practice. Incidentally, the 37mm is really only accurate against fast moving fighters inside of 2000 with 1000-1500 being ideal. At that point the AI ack is more accurate than a player.

If you are running around a field trying to get someone to up or you are inside of any manned gun range, the guys plinking at you were never going to up in the first place. Having Hitech purposely make man-able field guns inaccurate is really the same as a wish asking him to remove them from all feilds. In the past he would ask a type of question about this along the line of once he did remove those guns or purposely made them inaccurate. What was to keep him from replacing them with AI guns with really dialed up accuracy to achieve his original intent when he first installed the man-able guns?

In this whole wish discussion so far, you have not gotten a response from Hitech about how he looks at his original intent for man-able guns and current game play. Especially since your wish more accurately should be one asking for them to be removed from all feilds in the hope that will force his customers to up planes for you to shoot at.

[Shuffler]

MmmmMmmm bacon

[bustr]

Everyone loves bacon dont-cha know......

[turt21]

Ive never been able to hit anything in an 88. Deflection  problem Im guessing

[The Fugitive]

The point again is, More people in 88s = less people in planes.