T34 85 time for perk upgrade

[bustr]

Mano,

I created a way to provide comparison data for cannon effectiveness since the original poster's assertion resonated with Lusche's graphs. I don't need to be a tank player in this game to build a gunnery range to collect that data since 2000 on my range is the same as 2000 in the MA. The results will be the same becasue the same code is running for my range as is the MA.

After hours of taking shots it became obvious no two players will have the same outcomes every time since they will judge their reticles differently off the first shot along with everything else that goes with the online environment. Offline is the benchmark of what can happen when a shot is placed properly. You, me, or some 11 year old xBox hero will get the same results shooting on my offline range because it's a computer program. It's the same issue with shooting trials at Aberdeen MD during WW2 when cannons and rounds were tested under ideal conditions. And when you look at the ballistics charts to create the data in put for the in game ballistics performance, you use the ideal condition testing data from Aberdeen 1940's. After that, it's up to the individual player and his interpretation of what he sees and possibly any irregularity introduced by the internet.

 

[Mano]

The topic is: T34 85 time for perk upgrade

Maybe you meant to post to a different thread.

 

[FBKampfer]

The problem is that your data is largely irrelevant to the in-game performance of the tanks and weather or not perk prices need to be changed.


Damage on penetration is perhaps the least important aspect of combat. And on top of that your testing procedure, while consistent and repeatable, does NOT take real-world circumstances into account, and thus is almost useless from a practical standpoint.


If you were advising a noob how to play, you would have given him endless frustration as you tell him his T-34/85 has a great gun, and yet he consistently struggles with penetrating enemies that aren't so stupid as to park square on into incoming rounds, and doesn't understand why they're just going through his armor like butter.


You want useful data? Compare ranges of immunity vs other tanks and their overlap (if there are any). Compare probability of first round hit at unknown ranges, compare repeatability of point of aim.

THATS what matters for fighting a tank.

[save]

After reading Bustr's knock-out table, it does not correspond to what happened in real life ( if I read it correctly).

Only the IS2 and the 152mm monster could reliable kill a Panther at combat ranges frontally, whereas pretty much everything the Germans had could penetrate a T34/85 at combat ranges. To penetrate a Tiger I reliable a T34/85 need to get within 500 yards to penetrate it frontally.

T34/85 were almost useless over 1.5k yards due to bad optics and gun dispersion.

Normal woods should force tanks to go on small roads.

Woods have always been a tank killer, infantry weapons have a field day against tanks vulnerable sides and rear, almost regardless what tank you had.

[Chris79]

So... the t34 85 gun is pretty darn good. Sights aren't as good as German tanks but at MA ranges it's not usually an issue....

What about frontal shots?

Some did not even have sights, and the ones that had them found they were often faulty. It was not all that uncommon for a T34 to use its MG to ascertain range up until the end of the war.

[FBKampfer]

After reading Bustr's knock-out table, it does not correspond to what happened in real life ( if I read it correctly).

Only the IS2 and the 152mm monster could reliable kill a Panther at combat ranges frontally, whereas pretty much everything the Germans had could penetrate a T34/85 at combat ranges. To penetrate a Tiger I reliable a T34/85 need to get within 500 yards to penetrate it frontally.

T34/85 were almost useless over 1.5k yards due to bad optics and gun dispersion.

Normal woods should force tanks to go on small roads.

Woods have always been a tank killer, infantry weapons have a field day against tanks vulnerable sides and rear, almost regardless what tank you had.

Bustr's tables are only relevant for damage done upon perforation of the armor. They don't reflect penetration of the firing weapons, nor potential efficacy of the armor of the target.

A Tiger I's hull can be angled so that it is invulnerable to standard AP rounds at point blank range from a T-34/85.

Additionally I've knocked out T-34's from 2200m with a Panzer IV F2. You just have to know where to aim.


The tank game is far more finessed than his tables would indicate.

[lunatic1]

the T34-85 has slanted amour which in this game can take more hits depending where its hit. in real life WWII russia lost a ton of T34s.
my T34 gets killed alot from othewr T-34's and panzers

[JimmyD3]

the T34-85 has slanted amour which in this game can take more hits depending where its hit. in real life WWII russia lost a ton of T34s.
my T34 gets killed alot from othewr T-34's and panzers

Yeah Lunatic, but your special!!! 

[bustr]

Aside from in game, your shots might be at quarter angles and varied elevations, I pointed out that and the obvious of the width of the pixel line Waffle constructed the reticle with was the difference in a 1 shot kill or ricochet. Other variances by 1-2pixels in aiming are simply how the bottom of the treds and the ground look from different players graphics card and monitor.

You gents want to quibble and flutter your purses about, build a gunnery test terrain and pull your own data. THE DATA IS THE DATA BECAUSE IT IS A COMPUTER PROGRAM. Otherwise you are only describing anecdotal experiences and your personal needs based on your bias's in response to my testing. I didn't test off angles as a "data set" becasue the rounds will ricochet as expected, because I did off angles tests and didn't get penetration data to help me build my tank combat pit. I did a static test at 90 degrees to pull Hitech's data table at 90 degrees.

Find something else to start a purse fight over you numpties.....

[Mano]

Your data is irrelevant. If you don't understand the subject The topic is: T34 85 time for perk upgrade,
then post to a subject you understand.

 

[atlau]

Yeah I'm pretty sure the argument is that the t34/85s gun penetration + reload + turret rotation speed + armor + vehicle speed is a killer combo worthy of a significantly higher perk than say the m4/76, firefly or jagpanzer that all have much worse rounded tanks.

[Vinkman]

It's both combined. A tank with high usage and high K/D at the same time could be called 'dominating the battlefield' (Of course, there is no exact threshold, it's a rather vague term)

'Kills-Deaths' can be used for a quick evaluation of the impact a machine has on the battlefield. For example, in the other thread I posted the top 'dominators' for fighjter vs fighter combat:

(Image removed from quote.)

This is the same chart for tank vs tank combat but time not just for the top tanks, but for all of them:

(Image removed from quote.)

In 2018, the T-34/85 had not only 45% of all tank vs tank kills, it also had a K/D of 1,43 at the same time. This is huge.

It's interesting that it's kill ratio is high.  Is that data skewed at all by some highly effective players making it there tank of choice?  I don't believe that the performance differences of the T-34 give it a decisive advantage in the vast majority of tank encounters in AH.  I suspect the tank aces making it their choice of tank are making the tank look invincible.

Perking it will redistribute numbers among the other tanks, but why is that better and how does game play change?   

[Shuffler]

Perking it will make it drinkable.

[FBKampfer]

It's interesting that it's kill ratio is high.  Is that data skewed at all by some highly effective players making it there tank of choice?  I don't believe that the performance differences of the T-34 give it a decisive advantage in the vast majority of tank encounters in AH.  I suspect the tank aces making it their choice of tank are making the tank look invincible.

Perking it will redistribute numbers among the other tanks, but why is that better and how does game play change?   

It means that the T-34/85 is simply the default choice, and that most everything else is fodder for the T-34/85.

Reasonably I think that the Panther, Tiger, and Tiger II are not falling victim to it at disproportionate rates to its overall usage.

Taken together, this means the M4's, Panzers, and T-34/76's (if any meaningful usage remains) are being utterly eaten alive, since the Cats will likely depress the T-34's KTD.


In other words, it's stupidly OP for its perk price.

[Spikes]

It means that the T-34/85 is simply the default choice, and that most everything else is fodder for the T-34/85.

Reasonably I think that the Panther, Tiger, and Tiger II are not falling victim to it at disproportionate rates to its overall usage.

Taken together, this means the M4's, Panzers, and T-34/76's (if any meaningful usage remains) are being utterly eaten alive, since the Cats will likely depress the T-34's KTD.


In other words, it's stupidly OP for its perk price.

This pretty much sums it up, my thoughts all along.

Why take a M4-76 when you can have a T-34-85 for 1-2 more perks?
Why take a Panther when the T-34-85 is just as fast and costs much less?

It's the best bang for the buck tank available. Fast, hard hitting, bouncy. It doesn't really have a downside.