fu4c is that really a dweeb plane ?

[Toad]

Bartender! Another Round fer all my mates!

Sing lads! SING!


"Perk 'em all!

Perk 'em all!

The large and the fast and the small.

Perk all the Nikkis and C-Hogs in blue,

Perk anything that can shoot back at you!

`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all

As back to their Gruppen they crawl,

There'll be constant crying

as long as they're dying,

So cheer up, my lads,

Perk 'em all!

Nobody knows if the FM's are true,

So cheer up, my lads,

Perk 'em all!"


Well Done Lads! Drink up!

[Tac]

heh, the "cannon" armed 202 would easily thwack your 205 just because of the single ping ability. True, you may outperform it, but by simple stall-turn and spray it will keep its kill/loss ratio higher than your mg 205. HisZooka Cannons: No flying required.        

[StSanta]

The problem with the F4U-C wasn't really it's A2A capabilities.

The problem was its combined A2A and A2G capabilities. You'd have a bunch of chogs spawn from a cv, HO the enemy lose a few and then easily take down the field and all things moving on it with the cannons.

I've lost count of the times I've seen a tshjook swoop down, fire a .5 second burst and plop, there goes the tank/ostie/m16. And that was before the new armor modelling.

Or they come in with guns blazing taking down all hangars easily.

When the chog became an incredibly cheap perk, all of the sudden I started running into buffs again. I was quite amazed and pleasantly surprised.

Obviously, there are other great JABO planes in Ah, but none that are quite as good at doing both A2A and A2G, and none that can spawn from a CV. A 190A8 is an awesome Jabo, with a limited bomb load. Guns are lethal against planes and nowadays they can even with a long sustained burst kill ostwinds. But it doesn't have a) the huge loadout of the chog, b) a2a performance (not even close) and c) guns that easily can shred gv's to pieces. Its guns are great for hardened targets though.

P-47 - great groundpounder, but suffers from no 1 ping wing off guns and compared to the tshjook limited maneuverability, acceleration and climb rate.

Hope ya get my point  .

[ 06-23-2001: Message edited by: StSanta ]

[lazs1]

C and D hogs are the same plane but one has cannon.   The D hog is seldom used and has a way less that 1/1 K/D ratio.   LW guys feel that the only plane that should have 4 cannon is the 190.   They feel the same about the nik

Most guys that complained about the Chog couldn't even get a 1/1 K/D in it themselves.  Same goes for the nik

Most guys that complained were guys that flew fast B&Z planes and were pissed when a good solid snapshot ended their cowardly sortie.  same for the nik

Chogs were used a great deal to carry ordinance, take off from carriers and were one of the few planes that was useful against the overmodeled GV's and ground targets.

The nik will be next and then the Spit.

I have never done anything but fly fighters and have never seen a reset but I have 1500 perk points for sale.

Of all the possible solutions for adding late war planes to the set the "perk" idea is the dumbest.

The C (or D) hog cannot hang on the prop and stalls as bad as any plane with no mysterious flight modling that I can see.  same for the nik

I lose a lot of fights in the D that I woulda won in the C because the two or three snapshots I get into the enemey don't do dick in the D but woulda ended the fight before I was low and slow in the C.
lazs

[rogwar]

StSanta hit the nail on the head. Many including myself flew the chog because it was best multi-role plane in AH. Once you took off, one could do a lot of damage on the ground and in the air.

I do a lot of ground attack. I still fly it on occassion for a critical mission but now mostly fly the thyphoon in ground attack with 2k bombs.

I really like the 4 hispanos for deacking. I have flown the p47 several times but like the harder hitting 20mm guns better.

[laz]

i know i ain't gonna make a whole lot of friends saying this but you guys are whineing like little school girls.  the whole time you sit here and squeak you could be spending playing and getting better so you don't get in the situations where the cannons do hit you.  

[Hangtime]

I've used the CHawg the past few tours when I've need the extra punch in very dense target rich enviorments..

It's ability to strip the enemy a/c of major components with just a few hits is awsome. When yha ain't got time to finesse a long .50 cal burst the thunderous snapshot of the Chawg does the trick..

I don't think I've landed many sorties in it tho... and none that reaped more points than it's cost.

[hazed-]

hmm i see nothing has changed in my absence......


still those who flew the F4uc claim it to be 'how it was' and will never admit to that feeling you got when flying it.It had the best gun combo in AH, is easy to kill with, tough as old boots and carried an enourmous ordinance load to boot.

WELL read up boys! It is INCORRECTLY MODELED!

600lb light? do you realise thats like 2 pilots in weight?? if it is 600 lbs lighter than it should be that explains a diddlying lot doesnt it!

what i find annoying? Laz,AKdeja, creamo etc were all on the 'LW are whiners' team and yet even now as Pyro tells them there is inconsistancies in the FM they still try to claim it was pilot skill that earned the kills.It was good piloting sure, but the plane was wrong! therefore every kill in one was FALSE. dont you see that?
if HTC put a sopwith camel in here and made it fly like a F4 falcon hell everyone would fly it.It(f4uc) was never the 'easy' ride we all made it out to be in anger, that i admit, but im sure EVERYONE was aware when flying it, that it was so awsome that it couldnt possibly have been completely modelled right.
hell if it was that good it would have earned a much more 'Legendary' status and would probably have replaced every aircraft type of the war!.Why bother with med bombers when the chog could do the work?

Quite simply, the chog was a great plane.
one of the last prop fighter planes, biggest ever prop blade i beleive.powerfull guns and according to AH ordinance loads to match the D model.(although i can find NO mention of hardpoints for bombs on F4Uc models)
People in AH overused an unfairly modeled aircraft because in AH it could do everything.
If you ask me its about time laz and others just shut up.I get sick of reading their posts myself as im sure the majority in here do too.

EVEN now they wont admit that the people who moaned about the chog were in any way right.As usual SW,Laz,Creamo are all the diddlyin' experts right? everyone else is a 'whiner'?

glad i left.

 

'LW guys feel that the only plane that should have 4 cannon is the 190.' LAZ

utter roadkill.

[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

[Tac]

"so you don't get in the situations where the cannons do hit you."

Lazs, the only way to achieve that is to not engage them in combat and stay faaar away from them. Its a fact that an F4UC can be wingless, tail-less and spinning & burning towards the ground with that trigger pressed the whole way down while 5 or 6 innocent other planes at d1.2 from them dogfight. if ONE of those sprayed shells hits any plane in any place, they are DEAD.

Now take Mr. Newbie or Mr. Vet flying that thing. The newbie can stall the chog and still have a damn good chance of hitting someone with that huge load of ammo he has..dont tell me you never had a chog turning with you, have it stall-spin with trigger pressed, the stall actually spun them giving them a snapshot at your 12 (when you were in their 6!), the vet can spray a bit if he wants, but he now has not only his skill to his advantage but also the singlepingkill ability. The kill ratio of that plane spoke for itself, and bear in mind that it was the most flown plane for 2 tours or so, but also that you could count with one hand the # of "vet" pilots that flew it regularly.That is why the F4UC should remain perked.

[Toad]

Originally posted by hazed-:
600lb light? do you realise thats like 2 pilots in weight?? if it is 600 lbs lighter than it should be that explains a diddlying lot doesnt it!

Hmmm... let's see. The source I looked at (http://www.acepilots.com/planes/specs.html) says the F4U-1C weighed:

8,982 Empty
11093 Loaded
13999 Max Takeoff

Now other sources probably have slightly different numbers but these will serve the basic purpose.

So, mis-modeled by 600 pounds. Then if you fought one that was out of gas, bullets and after the pilot had bailed out  ;)the weight was off by ~7%.

If you fought one after right after he took off with a "normal" loadout, whatever that is, then the weight was off by ~ 5.4%

If you fought one when he was at Max Takeoff Weight than the weight was off by ~ 4%.

So, maybe overall weight was usually off by about 5-6%?

This then is the reason that therefore every kill in one was FALSE. ?

I guess you would say then that every single thing in AH...or any OTHER WW2 MMP game...that isn't modeled 100% correctly results in exactly that same situation, false kills?

I doubt I'll be able to sleep tonight now. Gosh, knowing the F4U-1C's I fought had a 6% percent weight error has started me thinking.

What if panzers could go down hills at 100 mph? Would that make the kills they got at the bottom of the hill false?

What if say.. a Bf-109E could just pull a 90deg knife-edge bank turn indefinitely while fighting a Spit I that was doing the same thing...would that make all those kills false?  

Good luck finding perfection, chum.

But I am happy that you are now happy.  

[lazs1]

guys... laz and lazs are two different people but..

I have never heard that the C hog was 600 lbs lighter than the D.. They both have exactly the same specs and fly exactly the same in AH so far as I can tell.   The weights for the C and D hogs that I have are 703 lbs for the guns and ammo loads for both the 4 hispanos or the 6 fifties.  The 1d was the biggest fattest pig of all the -1's also  I can find no place where the -1 with cannon weighs more than a 1d.  Why would it?

I hit kills?  the cannon hogs kill very well but there is no "1 hit kill" ability.  I used to fly it for a whole tour and have like 50 assists at the end of said tour.  Now how in the hell do I get an assist if 1 hispano round de wings every plane in the game every time?

I repeat... the guys that complained the loadest about the Chog were the guys who knew the least about it and were the most unskilled in it.   They were nothing but targets when they flew it but they hated it caus it could kill THEIR favorite plane.  They couldn't shrug off a couple of seconds of hispanno fire like they do the fifties.  Their lack of skill and the flaws of their chosen plane were both made obvious.
lazs

[laz]

yea... tac... don't try to tell me somthing about a plane till you can read!!  

[Tac]

lol, u 2 crack me up. We got a case of minime's here  

"I hit kills? the cannon hogs kill very well but there is no "1 hit kill" ability..."

you mustve had a lag issue. a C-Hog will pop any fighter with one ping. From my experience, every time I hit any fighter with it its blown to pieces on the first hit sprite. If you think about it, 1 hit sprite is like... 4+ shells?, maybe more.

[AKDejaVu]

what i find annoying? Laz,AKdeja, creamo etc were all on the 'LW are whiners' team and yet even now as Pyro tells them there is inconsistancies in the FM they still try to claim it was pilot skill that earned the kills

What I find annoying is that despite the fact that the plane has been perked and despite the fact that you have officially quit shortly after it being perked you still don't get that you were such a whiner in regards to this one plane that it is unbelievable.

I mean.. really.. was it necessary to insult anyone that flew it?  No.  But you did.  Was it necessary to call anyone that even thought about defending pilots rights to fly whatever the want?  No.  But you did.

Now, you have the sliver of a "600 lbs too lite" for a plane that never handled that well anyways.  Magically, you forget that your whole argument was basaed on "UBER LASER GUNS".  Does 600 lbs too lite somehow make it more lethal in an HO situation?  Nah... but you hold onto that number if you want.  

The plane is out climbed by most in the arena. It is out turned by most in the arena.  It is out accelerated by most in the arena.  All it can really do is fire its 4 hispano cannons.

What really cracks me up is when someone like hazed comes in here and tries to pretend that its not purely 20 mm envy that motivates his discussion in this thread.  That its not the fact that 4 hispanos pack a hell of a lot more punch than their LW counterparts.  Hazed... you may notice they still haven't turned down the velocity on those hispano rounds  Oh yea... I forgot... you weren't really talking about that when you argued about the CHog.

AKDejaVu

[GRUNHERZ]

I want my 109G10 weight reduced 600lbs, im sure nono of you "insignificant 600lbs" crowd would object.   IT'S A JOKE!!!!! PLEASE DONT BE OFFENDED

But honestly the thing that bothered me bout chog besides the guns was its increased ability in the vericay compared to the dhog, which seems to make sense as it was much too light and much lighter than dhog.

 
Ok ive tried to make this a resonable and measured post, I wonder how I will be attacked for it?       (again a joke)