Author Topic: P 63 Airacobra  (Read 5465 times)

Offline haggerty

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
      • Facebook
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2019, 06:50:36 AM »
The C-47 never shot a plane down and its still in the game, so the P-63 shouldnt be denied just because there are no confirmed kills.  It was in service during the war, thats all that should matter.
-Ninja250, -Spectre, -UBerHAGS, -FieroGT, -Haggerty, -Hellcat -Misawa, -Gloom -Nobunaga -Cobrakai

Offline perdue3

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4662
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2019, 08:30:57 AM »
Thank you. I had no idea you were also history crazed. I might have to add you to my academic e-pen-pal list, if you want.  I'm planning to study abroad at TTU's Seville campus next summer. :)

You have to be crazy to spend 90% of your time reading and writing about things.people don't care about. My concentration area is Alexander and Hellenistic warfare.
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

FlyKommando.com

 

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2019, 09:27:29 AM »
You have to be crazy to spend 90% of your time reading and writing about things.people don't care about. My concentration area is Alexander and Hellenistic warfare.


Well, you know, it takes a student determined not to make money to pick history, I'm told. A prof also once told me, when I handed in a paper that was a bit too abbreviated for his taste, that I seem to have left out the story in history. I'm learning to unlearn a lifetime of concise conversation (collective forum laugh?). I admire your concentration. I'm still determining mine, at this stage. It'll obviously be related to 20th century warfare (history seems to practically revolve around war) but I've been leaning toward the Spanish Civil (Air) War, specifically. Part of my study abroad is to immerse myself in the language and culture.

I suppose we've (I've) hijacked this thread way too far, as is. Apologies to all.  :cheers:

Offline perdue3

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4662
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2019, 10:06:02 AM »

Well, you know, it takes a student determined not to make money to pick history, I'm told. A prof also once told me, when I handed in a paper that was a bit too abbreviated for his taste, that I seem to have left out the story in history. I'm learning to unlearn a lifetime of concise conversation (collective forum laugh?). I admire your concentration. I'm still determining mine, at this stage. It'll obviously be related to 20th century warfare (history seems to practically revolve around war) but I've been leaning toward the Spanish Civil (Air) War, specifically. Part of my study abroad is to immerse myself in the language and culture.

I suppose we've (I've) hijacked this thread way too far, as is. Apologies to all.  :cheers:

I spent a great deal of time deciding my concentration. I finally narrowed it down to three areas: Protestant Reformation in Germany, Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front, Alexander the Great. I chose Alexander because I enjoy the time period more than the sixteenth and twentieth centuries. Along with writing about the Luftwaffe, I would have to spend time learning the politics, social ramifications, and general public history that goes with World War II. Studying Luther would require much of the same, but the historiography is essentially endless on the Reformation (Marxism, Annales, Cliometry, Great Man, Freudianism, etc.). Thus, studying the Reformation would be about 80% historiography, which I did not like the sound of. Meanwhile, to me, there is nothing boring about the fifteen hundred years of Ancient Western history. From 1,000 BCE to 500 CE there is not a bad topic, in my opinion. Of course, this is one of the least popular areas of history, in the English speaking world at least. So, it is a bold move and there is no money it at all. But, one can survive on professor pay.
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

FlyKommando.com

 

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2019, 12:28:00 PM »
I thought the Sparviero fought from the beginning to the end of WW2 along with sinking allied shipping in the Med as a highly effective torpedo bomber. The P63 flew in squadron strength for the VVS but, the assembly, training, and deployment was out of sync with the major battles against the Luftwaffe. Ultimately flying CAP and maybe some mud moving for the last battle against the Japanese with almost no air contacts due to the late stage of the war in 45. Yes one air to air was claimed, someone would have to research that.   
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Mister Fork

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7255
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2019, 10:20:58 AM »
It would be an easy add to do the P-63 Airacobra. It's a bit of a monster - fast plane. Good guns. Good iron options. Not sure on turn-rate - climb rate kinda poor for a later war aircraft. And that M10 37mm cannon would be the antithesis of the potato gun on the 109K4.  So - potential medium altitude bomber hunter.

I've found and referenced a confirmed kill. In Yefim Gordon's - Soviet Air Power in World War 2. ISBN 978-1-85780-304-4.  On pages 450 to 455 is a good read on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria mid-August.  Soviet pilot Miroshnichenko from 17th IAP/190 IAD shot down an Oscar. Found it in Wiki so I checked the reference. So, there you go.  :aok


Being the new head of IT at a college with access to the digital world library online has it's perks. :D
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 10:23:11 AM by Mister Fork »
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6803
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2019, 12:24:41 PM »
Back off "skull1"....just a little.    This behavior didn't work out too well before.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 12:44:28 PM by icepac »

Offline Volron

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5795
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2019, 06:29:47 AM »
The C-47 never shot a plane down and its still in the game, so the P-63 shouldnt be denied just because there are no confirmed kills.  It was in service during the war, thats all that should matter.

Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline haggerty

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
      • Facebook
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2019, 08:59:47 AM »


Not sure what you want with your reply.  The fight against the P-63 being included in the game is on the basis of no confirmed kills.  Any aircraft used in WW2 should be allowed, whether it was succesful or not.
-Ninja250, -Spectre, -UBerHAGS, -FieroGT, -Haggerty, -Hellcat -Misawa, -Gloom -Nobunaga -Cobrakai

Offline Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8834
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2019, 12:39:13 PM »
Not sure what you want with your reply.  The fight against the P-63 being included in the game is on the basis of no confirmed kills.  Any aircraft used in WW2 should be allowed, whether it was succesful or not.

Success has little to do with it. The P-63 was a mediocre fighter only used in one sideshow battle. Almost any other WW2 fighter has more merit for being added to AH over the P-63.
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline haggerty

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
      • Facebook
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2019, 02:01:00 PM »
Success has little to do with it. The P-63 was a mediocre fighter only used in one sideshow battle. Almost any other WW2 fighter has more merit for being added to AH over the P-63.

And we have those fighters.  Just because another may have had more success doesnt mean that this one shouldnt be added.  Add all of them.

The P-39 saw major use by the Soviets, with the P-63 being an improvement in every category I can see it being used a fair amount
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 02:07:48 PM by haggerty »
-Ninja250, -Spectre, -UBerHAGS, -FieroGT, -Haggerty, -Hellcat -Misawa, -Gloom -Nobunaga -Cobrakai

Offline Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8834
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2019, 02:48:17 PM »
And we have those fighters.  Just because another may have had more success doesnt mean that this one shouldnt be added.  Add all of them.

Ideally, yes. All should be added, but that is impossible to expect. Therefore each potential aircraft must be evaluated based on its merits - of which the P-63 is lacking.

Because of its extremely limited combat service its value to events is almost zero.

The plane's performance indicate it will have little value to the MA. Imagine a P-47D-11 with a big cannon and few rounds for it. Sounds like a real winner there.  :devil

Quote
The P-39 saw major use by the Soviets, with the P-63 being an improvement in every category I can see it being used a fair amount

Yes the P-39 was extensively used by the Soviets - against the Germans, There is no proof that the P-63 did anything except participate in one short campaign against Japan when the war was all but over. 
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline haggerty

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
      • Facebook
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2019, 04:02:33 PM »
Ideally, yes. All should be added, but that is impossible to expect. Therefore each potential aircraft must be evaluated based on its merits - of which the P-63 is lacking.

Because of its extremely limited combat service its value to events is almost zero.

The plane's performance indicate it will have little value to the MA. Imagine a P-47D-11 with a big cannon and few rounds for it. Sounds like a real winner there.  :devil

Yes the P-39 was extensively used by the Soviets - against the Germans, There is no proof that the P-63 did anything except participate in one short campaign against Japan when the war was all but over.

I'd say the P-47D-11 is a poor example as its a great flyer, I'd welcome a 37mm on that model.  And apart from the usage against the Japanese, their are claims from Germans and the Soviets that they secretly used it in place of the P-39 to avoid agreements that they wouldnt.
-Ninja250, -Spectre, -UBerHAGS, -FieroGT, -Haggerty, -Hellcat -Misawa, -Gloom -Nobunaga -Cobrakai

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9359
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2019, 04:23:54 PM »
I'd say the P-47D-11 is a poor example as its a great flyer, I'd welcome a 37mm on that model.  And apart from the usage against the Japanese, their are claims from Germans and the Soviets that they secretly used it in place of the P-39 to avoid agreements that they wouldnt.


I'm pretty sure we looked into this, some years ago, and concluded that it was an unsubstantiated rumor.  If memory servers, there are Soviet sources of a P-63 test unit near Moscow - they weren't terribly happy with the plane's handling qualities - but that was the extent of the P-63 getting anywhere near the Germans.

- oldman

Offline haggerty

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 879
      • Facebook
Re: P 63 Airacobra
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2019, 04:27:42 PM »

I'm pretty sure we looked into this, some years ago, and concluded that it was an unsubstantiated rumor.  If memory servers, there are Soviet sources of a P-63 test unit near Moscow - they weren't terribly happy with the plane's handling qualities - but that was the extent of the P-63 getting anywhere near the Germans.

- oldman

I'm sure its hard to substantiate something that was done secretly, unless you suck at keeping secrets.  Either way, when it comes down to it, the P-63 served in the war and would be a great addition to the game.
-Ninja250, -Spectre, -UBerHAGS, -FieroGT, -Haggerty, -Hellcat -Misawa, -Gloom -Nobunaga -Cobrakai