Author Topic: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.  (Read 1202 times)

Offline fd ski

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Re: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2019, 08:33:34 AM »
5000 i believe.

A lot considering what the German people did to  the Russian people.

Red Army had a record of atrocities well before having a german atrocities as an excuse.

Offline Chris79

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Re: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2019, 09:01:24 AM »
    Between the years 1941-1942 alone, up to 200,000 Red Army soldiers were executed by the NKVD. However, since Order No. 227, the Battalions were increased in number and men within each increased also. Estimates on how many Red Army prisoner/soldiers, “Deserters” and “Panic-mongers” were executed throughout the war, are estimated between hundreds of thousands to a million… but one cannot truly know the true loss of life under these Orders.
    Stalin had severe trust issues as many know, and peoples who were exposed to western culture who were not party elite were considered compromised. Even civilians whom were forcibly brought to Germany as slave labor were either sent to Gulag or forcibly resettled in the more desolate parts of the USSR.
   


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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2019, 02:00:15 PM »
Red Army had a record of atrocities well before having a german atrocities as an excuse.

A certain forest in Poland comes to mind.

Offline zack1234

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Re: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2019, 02:04:42 AM »
Red Army had a record of atrocities well before having a german atrocities as an excuse.

Did Poland invade Germany in the 1920's under Pilsudski?

What was that about?




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Offline mganiev

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Re: The intentional starvation of Soviet POWs.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »
    Between the years 1941-1942 alone, up to 200,000 Red Army soldiers were executed by the NKVD. However, since Order No. 227, the Battalions were increased in number and men within each increased also. Estimates on how many Red Army prisoner/soldiers, “Deserters” and “Panic-mongers” were executed throughout the war, are estimated between hundreds of thousands to a million… but one cannot truly know the true loss of life under these Orders.
    Stalin had severe trust issues as many know, and peoples who were exposed to western culture who were not party elite were considered compromised. Even civilians whom were forcibly brought to Germany as slave labor were either sent to Gulag or forcibly resettled in the more desolate parts of the USSR.
   
We can try to figure it out. I think you mix two events: verification POWs after the war and order No.227.
In your first post, you wrote about the verification POWs, but for some reason you mentioned order No.227. These are not related things.

Some number about verification and "Gulag" from Igor Pyhalov:
By March 1, 1946, 4,199,488 Soviet citizens were repatriated (2,660,013 civilians and 1,539,475 POWs).
civilians
2.146.126 - Sent to the place of residence
141.962 - Called to the army
263.647 - Entered the working battalions
46.740 - Transferred to the NKVD
61.538 - It was located at the collection points and was used in the work of the Soviet military units and facilities abroad

POWs
281.780 - Sent to the place of residence
659.190 - Called to the army
344.448 - Entered the working battalions
226.127 - Transferred to the NKVD
27.930 - It was located at the collection points and was used in the work of the Soviet military units and facilities abroad
      
"Transferred to the NKVD" means second step of verification. These were mainly ROA members and other collaborators.
Numbers from [V.N. Zemskov; 2016. — ISBN 978-5-8055-0299-7] about  NKVD's verification 
140 thousand - few years of work without moving(some restrictions, not prisoned),
10 thousand - spare divisions,
40 thousand - Entered the working battalions,
20 thousand - Sent to the place of residence,
8.728 - arrested,
30.477 - special camps(special settlements) .



Order No.227 is absolutly another story. It there is on the Internet, may be in English too but I'm not sure about quality translate.

Order 227 was an attempt to restore discipline in the army after retreat 41-42 years. If a person deserted, he could be punished  before order no.227, the order explained to all the seriousness of the situation
There are many studies the Red Army's  anti-retreat forces and Order No.227 in particular. For example Igor Pyhalov http://militera.lib.ru/research/pyhalov_i/13.html.
It does  follow from the book’s chapter that mostly from escaped from a front line was returned to divisions , some was executed like deserters and alarmists.
There is numbers in the book. Chapter is too big for my English but I can translate some part with numbers if it will be interest.
Reality is some different from wikipedia.