Why Boeing 737 Max production has stopped, and its more than MCAS

[Busher]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

And just to add, pilots had to "FLY" the DC-9. It's automation required steam.

So these 2 likely would not have gotten it into the air.

[Puma44]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

If there IS a complicated equipment malfunction, two competent pilots would maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation, take the proper action, maintain situational awareness, and land the aircraft safely at the nearest suitable airport.  Blaming the aircraft when the pilots are incapable of maintaining aircraft control is not the root cause, no matter how much spin is put on it.

[Vraciu]

And just to add, pilots had to "FLY" the DC-9. It's automation required steam.

So these 2 likely would not have gotten it into the air.

That's right.  They would have run it off the end.

There are DC-9 and MD-80 carcasses littered all over Africa.

I landed over the top of this one in Port Harcourt, Nigeria...  The guy I replaced as Standards Captain at one outfit once tried to do the same thing--with me in the right seat.  I politely suggested it was not a good idea.  Thankfully Aero was holding short and told us not to bother because of standing water, which prevented what could have become a pretty tense disagreement had he insisted on attempting it.   It was a good thing he was flying with another Captain (me) because had he been with one of our F/Os they would have wound up in the mud with a busted up airplane.

[Busher]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

And I forgot to add, take a couple of guys with little background in flying airplanes.... let me correct that.... 1 guy with little background and another with none... then you teach them to work the computers in a high performance jet... then the computers break so they have to fly it.... oh that's right... they don't know how.
How's that for your root cause Davey?

Sheesh

[FLS]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

There was no complicated equipment failure. There was a simple sensor failure in a complicated aircraft.

Merry Christmas!

[Toad]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

An AOA malfunction is not a complicated equipment malfunction. Handle that, as competent pilots will, and there is no crash.

[Toad]

Not to be too pedantic on Christmas Eve, but have you ever been part of a Root Cause Investigation?  If there is no complicated equipment malfunction, there is no crash.  That is the root cause.  If these guys had been flying a DC-9 instead of a 737 Max, the folks would still be alive.  The "root cause" is the complicated aircraft malfunction.

No, I have not ever been part of a "Root Cause Investigation".

While I'm not sure if an NTSB crash investigation qualifies as such, they do usually conclude with a "probable cause" finding.

Given that, I think I'll go with Mr. Feith (Investigator in Charge of the NTSB “Go-Team” from 1993 to 2001):

“The NTSC stated the pilots, especially the First Officer, had significant training deficiencies and lacked basic flying skills. These same deficiencies occurred during the accident flight. These two pilots had no business being in the cockpit and the airplane should not have been operated because of all the maintenance issues that began at the beginning of October, and were not corrected, making the airplane unairworthy.”

Given that, I'll agree with Mr. Feith. I think the primary causal factor is unqualified pilots.

[guncrasher]

This thread is golden. However, this Davidpt guy is clearly trolling you all with propaganda and isn't rationalizing anything you guys say. He's pushing an agenda.

He obviously believes that Boeing is "muh evil greedy corporate business" that don't care about nothing but "evil profits that only go right in the owners pocket". Do you really believe a company would risk billions in lawsuits, contracts, and integrity to do something stupid and put millions at risk?

Literally 2 planes in sweet Africa go down and we have a world wide crisis that is crippling a major aeronautical business worldwide. Think about that.

The real question is, why the attack on Boeing? CEO just resigned today. What's the real reason the media is so outraged? Why do they really hate Boeing now?

if I was you I would keep this in the down low, I heard k girl has like 20,000 deaths to her name.  if you need help, I'll stand with you bro, I am scared I need a hug.


semp

[Busher]

A bit of dry NY Times reading but at least some one's talking about pilot standards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/business/automated-planes.html