Author Topic: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...  (Read 4881 times)

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2020, 01:19:06 PM »
UPT classmate of mine runs a helicopter training center. I discussed this with him.

He said it is the "classic" helicopter "Inadvertent IFR" accident. The company even has a complete Ground School/Simulator course on this exact scenario.

Initial impression was (and I know nothing about S-76 avionics, just repeating the info) that the pilot climbed quickly, losing airspeed. At some point the autopilot will kick off if the airspeed gets too low. Autopilot kicks off in IFR, pilot is not really on the controls at that moment due to thinking a/p will handle everything. Resultant loss of control in IFR while pilot is trying to catch up to the situation. Admittedly, it's all speculation at this point but the accident does fit the Inadvertent IFR profile very well.

Everyone knows how it ended though.

YMMV.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline davidpt40

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2020, 03:48:21 PM »
Eyewitness, or more likely sound witness, said the helicopter was nearly in a hover in the clouds (moving just a few knots airspeed), and slowly plowed into the mountain. 

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2020, 04:01:15 PM »
Crash site is an area larger than a football field by most reports. Seems like it would be smaller if it crashed from a hover.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Mister Fork

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7257
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2020, 04:31:39 PM »
Crash site is an area larger than a football field by most reports. Seems like it would be smaller if it crashed from a hover.

What he said. Debris was thrown almost 300 feet from main impact site. It wasn't moving a few knots.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 04:33:39 PM by Mister Fork »
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Haskell

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2020, 04:33:51 PM »
No. The only reason that this helicopter was pushing through those conditions was the rich guy in the back ordering the pilot (who should have said no) to do so. Too many years of being the crowd pleaser, and making the money made him think he was infallible (my assumption, sure). Take away that little orange ball and who is Kobe? Just another adulterer in my book. Sure, if he brought you hours and hours of fun watching him win you might feel different. I don't feel that way about the NBA, at all.

I have much more compassion for the loss of people that have played AH that I don't know any more than Kobe. Much.

Kobe was a role model for an entire generation, he was known for his laser commitment to whatever he did.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 07:15:56 PM by Haskell »

Offline Meatwad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12792
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2020, 07:31:36 PM »
Kobe was a role model for an entire generation, he was known for his laser commitment to whatever he did.

Generation of thugs and rapists
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
Das Funkillah - I kill hangers, therefore I am a funkiller. Coming to a vulchfest near you.
You cant tie a loop around 400000 lbs of locomotive using a 2 foot rope - Drediock on fat women

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6646
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2020, 09:08:40 AM »
Interesting flight path simulation to check out here. From an actual pilot.

https://youtu.be/XSHpbGhy3Ko

Still seems bizarre to me that the pilot would lose so much alt like this so quickly givin that he knew he was in mountainous area.. wouldn't he have remained high until he got some kind of visual of the terrain?

Do these helicopters not have auto pilot preplanned routes like airplanes? Seems like he should have had a path to travel on a map.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 09:11:09 AM by DmonSlyr »
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline Haskell

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2020, 09:58:08 AM »
Generation of thugs and rapists

laser commitment to whatever he did.

don't worry we'll get better at it. Dubul' ibhunu
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 10:02:33 AM by Haskell »

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9417
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2020, 10:29:40 AM »
Interesting flight path simulation to check out here. From an actual pilot.

https://youtu.be/XSHpbGhy3Ko

Still seems bizarre to me that the pilot would lose so much alt like this so quickly givin that he knew he was in mountainous area.. wouldn't he have remained high until he got some kind of visual of the terrain?

Do these helicopters not have auto pilot preplanned routes like airplanes? Seems like he should have had a path to travel on a map.


The classic result of unintentionally going from visual conditions into instrument conditions is that the pilot gradually pulls his aircraft into an increasingly-tight left-spiral dive.  Vertigo is a very strange feeling, which you really can’t duplicate except in an aircraft in actual IMC.  I remember my first time, I thought I had leveled the wings, but the instruments showed I was still turning, and I thought “WTF is the matter with these gauges?”

- oldman

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2020, 12:03:06 PM »
Kobe was a role model for an entire generation, he was known for his laser commitment to whatever he did.

The same generation of flash mobs and sucker-punching punks? What I thought.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17358
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2020, 12:15:43 PM »
Interesting flight path simulation to check out here. From an actual pilot.

https://youtu.be/XSHpbGhy3Ko

Still seems bizarre to me that the pilot would lose so much alt like this so quickly givin that he knew he was in mountainous area.. wouldn't he have remained high until he got some kind of visual of the terrain?

Do these helicopters not have auto pilot preplanned routes like airplanes? Seems like he should have had a path to travel on a map.

it wasn't a mountainous terrain it was a hilly terrain.  altitude given is above sea level.  been there in that area many times.

also live about 60 miles from the beach.  that morning the fog was pretty heavy all the way to my house. i remember because i wanted to go buy a beer but i stepped outside and said no way.

there's no conspiracy, no cabal, no satanic forces.  just simply the pilot should not have flown.  probably got disoriented and it's probably as simple ad that.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline mikeWe9a

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2020, 12:52:47 PM »
Interesting flight path simulation to check out here. From an actual pilot.

https://youtu.be/XSHpbGhy3Ko

Still seems bizarre to me that the pilot would lose so much alt like this so quickly givin that he knew he was in mountainous area.. wouldn't he have remained high until he got some kind of visual of the terrain?

Do these helicopters not have auto pilot preplanned routes like airplanes? Seems like he should have had a path to travel on a map.

Going to agree with Oldman on this - he likely didn't realize that he was descending rapidly.  People (even pilots) are used to using subconscious cues that tell them what is going on (leaning left, etc).  These cues don't work when you are in an object moving in 3 dimensions, which is why accidentally flying into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions, meaning you can't see the ground or horizon) kills people with alarming frequency.  It takes some time to switch from looking outside to looking at your instruments and having your brain be able to process what you are looking at, and if you aren't trained in doing it, you are likely to crash anyways - there is a pilot training on this, titled "178 seconds to live," because pilots who are not instrument trained lose control and crash within 3 minutes on average in a simulator when losing outside visibility.

As for the route - while he may well have had a planned route, at the time he was operating under VFR and navigating by ground reference.  He had been directed to follow the interstate, so he was flying a route that was not planned (vectors for traffic flow or weather avoidance are common in high traffic areas).  Earlier in the flight he indicated that he was climbing to avoid a cloud layer.  Again it is likely that he inadvertently lost sight of the horizon and became disoriented, likely without being aware of that fact.  Unrecognized Spatial Disorientation is the most dangerous type of disorientation, since if you don't realize that you are disoriented, you aren't going to do anything to "re-orient" yourself, and are quite likely to slam your aircraft into the ground or otherwise put it into a dangerous state without realizing it.  The sharp turn and descent are, as Oldman stated, a common result of such disorientation.

Mike

Edited to fix:  The announcement that he was climbing to avoid clouds was several minutes before the crash, not immediately prior, as I originally posted.  Still, inadvertent flight into IMC and resultant spacial disorientation is my candidate for most likely cause.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:51:09 PM by mikeWe9a »

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6756
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2020, 04:05:36 PM »
Sikorsky S-76 specs that I have seen show a VNE of 155kts ~ 179mph.

Press reports (yah, I know) say "When it struck the ground, the helicopter was flying at about 184 mph and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute, the data showed." (Fox News).

OK..let's see...exceeding VNE and descending 4000 fpm. This is not indicative of an aircraft under control; rather, it's the opposite situation. Normal commercial aviation rarely, if ever, descends at 4,000 fpm and certainly not when the cruise altitude is ~2000' over hillsides that are 1400'.

So, it's clear that Boeing killed Kobe Bryant. Oh..wait...it was Sikorsky...no, wait....Lockheed Martin because they have deeper pockets.

Or maybe, just maybe...

(Image removed from quote.)

Hard to believe there was a descent rate of more than 4,000 fpm, especially since he was a thousand feet or lower above terrain when he started the turn southbound.  And, 184 mph.  But, it’s Fox News and they always get their facts straight.  (Sarcasm Alert)



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6756
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2020, 04:17:21 PM »
Interesting flight path simulation to check out here. From an actual pilot.

https://youtu.be/XSHpbGhy3Ko

Still seems bizarre to me that the pilot would lose so much alt like this so quickly givin that he knew he was in mountainous area.. wouldn't he have remained high until he got some kind of visual of the terrain?

Do these helicopters not have auto pilot preplanned routes like airplanes? Seems like he should have had a path to travel on a map.

Considering the amount of IFR traffic on a typical SOCAL marine layer day, he most likely was trying to stay out of that mix, below all of it, and maintain VFR.  From the ATC tapes, he was already held near Glendale for traffic, and that was probably IFR traffic flying the ILS 8 to Burbank.  So, he may not have been able to fly a canned route because of other traffic and/or the weather.

Agree that spatial disorientation is a definite possibility.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 04:21:17 PM by Puma44 »



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline davidpt40

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2020, 04:54:14 PM »
Crash site is an area larger than a football field by most reports. Seems like it would be smaller if it crashed from a hover.

Here's what the witness said.  The ATC lost radar contact a few minutes before the crash.  He said the sound stopped instantly once it impacted with the mountain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28QYy8lrww8