AI base defenders

[popeye]

You have AI flak and AA now.  You have bomber drones.  Fleets are given paths just like in the Mission Editor and the AI takes it from there.

Yeah, bomber drones are a pain.  If there was no human player flying bombers, I'd be happy to ignore them.

If AI fleets ran around destroying bases with no human involvement, I'd be happy to ignore them too.

AI flak seems to be a necessary evil to give (actual human) players a chance to get airborne and into a fight, and it garners its share of complaints here and online.  I can only imagine the cries of anguish when a hidden AI defenders killed an attacker.

Also, what would happen when a player spawns at a base being defended by AI forces?  Do the AI forces disappear?  Wouldn't that be an incentive to ignore the base and let AI defend?  How would that contribute to creating more action?

[Wiley]

I'd say spawn a set number of them when the base is captured, if players show up then they're still there, just like ack guns.

My main concern with them would be if they're too good they'll stagnate the maps especially over night/morning.  If they're not good enough they'll be ambience for the attacker just like puffy on a CV.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

Yeah, bomber drones[...]

So, you've admitted there is already AI operating in the arena.  Good.

What happens to the AI ack when a player launches to defend a field?  Does it disappear?

If the AI ack doesn't disappear, isn't that an incentive to ignore the base and let the AI ack defend?

[CptTrips]

I'd say spawn a set number of them when the base is captured, if players show up then they're still there, just like ack guns.

My main concern with them would be if they're too good they'll stagnate the maps especially over night/morning.  If they're not good enough they'll be ambience for the attacker just like puffy on a CV.

Wiley.

AI is very adjustable.  If you flown in WW1WF and gone up and down the front, you can make them brain-dead targets all the way up to Skynet Terminators.

If you've tried my 4x4 offline dogfights, I have those set to what I feel is decent target practice for an "average" player, but they are certainly not scary.

Just dial in what you want.

[Wiley]

AI is very adjustable.  If you flown in WW1WF and gone up and down the front, you can make them brain-dead targets all the way up to Skynet Terminators.

If you've tried my 4x4 offline dogfights, I have those set to what I feel is decent target practice for an "average" player, but they are certainly not scary.

Just dial in what you want.

I don't look too hard at GVs, but am I correct that he has no AI at all for GVs?  They just sit and shoot?  They'd basically be more armored auto guns. 

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

I don't look too hard at GVs, but am I correct that he has no AI at all for GVs?  They just sit and shoot?  They'd basically be more armored auto guns. 

Currently, that is correct.

And the AI defenders should be coded to stay within a certain radius of base.  They can chase you off, but at a certain distance return back to the base defensive area.

[edit]  Let me clarify.  Currently the mission editor doesn't let you spawn GV at all.  But if you didn't even need them to move, it shouldn't be too hard to add. 
In effect the AT guns would just be the ground version of the AI field ack.

[Greebo]

Not sure why anyone would pay $15 a month the fight AI.

Because its better than fighting no one at all. For my time zone there are not enough players in the MA to make it worth me logging in except late at night when I am too tired to play, so I just don't bother any more. I am sure there are others in the same boat as me, but if we had something to do in the MA more engaging than bombing static targets it would encourage us to log in. With more players showing on the MA roster it encourages even more to log in and it becomes a benign circle.

I'd much rather have some AI planes protecting bases than the fun killing 88s we have now. This is something that would start dogfights rather than end them as they would make it a less of a suicide mission to up from a base with enemy fighters around.

To make things fairer a side with a higher than average numbers of human players could get fewer and/or worse replacement AI pilots and planes or longer respawn times until numbers evened out. I'd also like to see AI bomber raids heading to strats every now and then. Just seeds to get human players logging in to the MA during off peak times.

[eddiek]

Code the AI so that as human players get on the scene, they basically retreat or disappear, unless the number of defenders is less than the number of attackers. 
For example, let's say 3 GV's spawn in to attack an undefended  GV base. The base flashes, no human defenders respond, so AI generates several random AI defenders in always random positions to hold the line until human defenders up to take up the defense.
Once one human ups, the AI decreases it's presence.  Another human ups, the AI lessens itself further.  The goal being a 1:1 human defenders vs attackers ratio. 

Sounds possibly workable on paper........implementing/coding it might present a heckuva challenger for HT.  Might even tailor the AI response to match the attackers' GV's in capability, i.e for an M3 a 20mm or 37mm weapon, for heavier armored GV's the AI would select 88mm or 17pdr AT weaponry.  The goal being just enough defensive capability to deter or slow down the attack without overwhelming the attackers with vastly superior firepower.

An intriguing idea Eagler brought up, one that I myself had thought of, glad I'm not the only player thinking along those lines.

[bustr]

Setup AI fighter squadrons to blow through each country targeting only the Icon of planes in the air of that country. Something along the lines of what the AvA tested some years back. Then it was a Ju88 formation with 109 escorts. Back then they left you alone unless you attacked them. The 109 were pretty good and we ended up with some nasty furballs. I seem to remember one round of that Icons were off and the 109's did exactly like many players did during no icons and ended up flying in the bushes to popup under you out of nowhere.

I've always found Hitech's AI fighters to equal the player ability of average AH vets who have been in the game upwards of 10 years. If you dismissed them as just AI, they can hand you your ego as fast as player piloted fighters in the game. Now if Hitech coded his AI to send you nasty EGO crushing PM's each time you go down in flames, it won't be much different than business as usual.   

[CptTrips]

As a slight alternative (might simplify the logic) maybe there are a number of AI defenders that are always at the base.  Taking off, landing, flying patrol around the base.  So they would just be there naturally to defend by default.

Another advantage is they would just provide a sense of activity and give players they feeling they are spawning into an existing world of activity and not an empty vacuum filled with swirling dust and tumbleweeds.   

In WW1WF I had a large number of AI just doing that.  Take-offs, patterns, landing, repeat.  To give the arena a living, organic feel of activity and on-going operations.

That eliminates the logic of when to spawn them, when to de-spawn them.  They just run their pattern forever unless an enemy come near.

$0.02.

[AKKuya]

Is the server capable of handling that much automated AI missions?

[CptTrips]

Is the server capable of handling that much automated AI missions?

I have something close to 450+ AI agent running at time on WW1WF and Hitech said it was taking very little resources.  I can't remember the exact numbers, but like 10% of 1 CPU on a 12 CPU machine.  I could be completely making that up.     But 450+ was not even enough to peak his interest. 

Remember, most of the time, most of the AI are tooling along not doing much and no one is around for them to have to send packets to.

It's an amazingly flyweight system.

 

[edit]  At this particular moment there are 393 AI in air in WW1WF.  It ebbs and flows depending on how the big missions overlap.  24/7 for almost a year now.    No problemo.

[AKKuya]

I have something close to 450+ AI agent running at time on WW1WF and Hitech said it was taking very little resources.  I can't remember the exact numbers, but like 10% of 1 CPU on a 12 CPU machine.  I could be completely making that up.     But 450+ was not even enough to peak his interest. 

Remember, most of the time, most of the AI are tooling along not doing much and no one is around for them to have to send packets to.

It's an amazingly flyweight system.

 

[edit]  At this particular moment there are 393 AI in air in WW1WF.  It ebbs and flows depending on how the big missions overlap.  24/7 for almost a year now.    No problemo.

Fortress Europe, my Snapshots and other events have the potential to be very immersive in activity.

[CptTrips]

Fortress Europe, my Snapshots and other events have the potential to be very immersive in activity.

Everyone seemed to have fun in Fortress Europe. 
You're taking your Snapshot 1/2 step further.  Looking forward to seeing how it goes!
We need to just keep pushing the envelope. 

 

[bustr]

See if Hitech would put up the massive late war AI bomber mission over the continent he had us test during the alpha\beta. It had a huge number of escort and enemy fighter squadrons along with the giant bomber stream that flew across Europe. He also put in a massive cloud front across the continent. It was just like being in FSO with far more action for your flying time.