Fighter Rank

[Lusche]

Filling buffs with mg rounds instead of cannon is bad for your health.

But can be good for your hit%.
If you really want to boost that, use .50 for killing bombers and taters for shooting at fighters. After all, it's all about maths here   

[atlau]

But can be good for your hit%.
If you really want to boost that, use .50 for killing bombers and taters for shooting at fighters. After all, it's all about maths here   

Sure but you wont live long enough to increase your hit percentage. And kill/death kill/sortie and kill/hr will suffer

[Lusche]

Sure but you wont live long enough to increase your hit percentage.

That's entirely untrue, unless you are one of those slow 6 o clock creepers. 

[atlau]

Just as I was about to go to bed, I discovered this thread. Oh well... 

To my knowledge this has never happened in the LW/Main/Melee arena - yet. It's not impossible, but very difficult to pull off, there are still a lot of players with very good scoring stats AND a massive amount of play time-> damage points.  It happened before only in the much smaller EW & MW arenas, with their much smaller populations and much fewer average hours of play time per player per tour.

Let's take last tours fighter ranks. Lets assume someone  did a freak single vulch sortie and ended up with 10 kills.
Let's say
K/D 10 - would result in rank 10
K/S 10 -> rank  1
K/H 20 -> rank 3
hit% 10 -> rank 38
Kill Points 1400 -> rank 463   (determined by the avg. kill points per kill for the top 100 fighter pilots)

This freak sortie (which would, vulch or not, already take an excellent pilot to pull of) result in a overall fighter rank of around 45.
Even with two such sorties in a row and increasing the hit% to 15% he would not have made the top 20.


(Disclaimer: for technical reasons, my rank numbers can differ slightly from HT's, but that usually has little impact on top ranking calculations)

Hope I did not make any errors, it's quite late over here 

What's the least number of kills someone had while still #1?

[atlau]

That's entirely untrue, unless you are one of those slow 6 o clock creepers. 

Your still gonna have a lower kill/hr than if you use the cannon rounds. And since you force yourself to be exposed more since your rounds do less damage you run a higher risk and chances are your k/d and k/s will suffer.

[TheChief]

I think we should have some different variables for our metrics (at least in my case)
1. If I am wearing my glasses or not
2. How many beers I have drank
3. If I am wearing my daytime or nighttime pajamas

[Lusche]

Your still gonna have a lower kill/hr than if you use the cannon rounds. And since you force yourself to be exposed more since your rounds do less damage you run a higher risk and chances are your k/d and k/s will suffer.

No. I know that because I did all that in all possible variations, and of course watched the stats.

Just a few overall career stats in some of my more prominent prop buff hunters of both types:

Ta152 3965 bomber kills to 143 deaths by bombers - K/D 28
109K 3466/191 K/D 18

P-51B (yes, that 4x.50cal thing) 1301/53 K/D 25
P-51D 909/40 K/D 23
P-47M 458/13 K/D 35

As you can see, there is not much difference in the K/Ds vs bombers (of course I used differend attack tactics for both types of armaments). There wasn't much difference in kills/hour either.

With that in mind you can see how using the .50cal planes is hugely benefical to overall hit% due to the large absolute number of rounds hitting the target. I can show you a sample calculation if necessary.

[The Fugitive]

You do not even see the bias in your own post, you make statements like this "How would you rank yourself against someone like Yucca?" you are making the huge assumptions of what you think better is. Your post shows a desire to measure the BEST (not sure what) you believe in the way someone flies. But you fail to define it.


The next issue is that you believe knowing how to tweak your score is NOT a skill? By definition knowing how to optimize your scoring is what the score system is measuring. Knowing how to optimize and then being able to execute scoring plan IS the game when trying for rank, it's not a system where the score is trying to measure some preconceived notion what some people of the  best "Pilot".

HiTech

After reading the OP, I thought that was what he was looking for, a way to narrow down the scoring/ranking so that it showed the "better pilot". His statement......

So I started looking at the stats for the top 15 players. I think the metric calculation is odd. It sums your rank in K/D, K/Hour, K/Sortie, Hit%, and Damage Points. That means there are 4 categories out of the 5 that are normalized. At 1 point a person with 38 fighter kills for the tour was ranked 5th while the person ranked 4th and 6th had 400+ kills.

Hit% seems very arbitrary with large rank differences between 7% and 11%. Not sure why this would have equal weight in the rank with  Kills, Damage, or K/D.

says to me that he wants to do away with the hit% because it doesnt help with naming the top fighter, after all some guy with 38 kills was ranked higher than guys with 400+

He goes on to say ...

If it were me I would have K/D, and damage points only. But I would weight the damage points by plane ENY differential. (You should get more points for killing a Dora in a P-40, than killing a P-40 in a Dora) or include Perks earned which is mostly the same thing.

which to me says he is looking for metric that will define a better fighter as in Killing a dora with a P40 takes more skill or is harder than the other way around so should be worth more.

I wasnt making any assumptions, but was just continuing to show the folly of trying to score/rank players as the "best" (what ever that is) fighter in the game, which is what I thought the OP was looking to do.

As for the tweaking of score, yes I guess you could call it another aspect of the game, much like the achievements and such. However I believe "most" people look at scoring/rank as more of an absolute, a defining stick to judge themselves as compared to others. In football a team with a 14-2 record is ranked higher than a team with a 10-6 record. The 14-2 team is not only ranked higher but is over all considered the "better" team.

If players come into this game and try to use the scoring and ranking system as the same type of yardstick they are getting false info due to the ability of some players ability, or willingness to tweak their score.

Personally I couldnt care less about the score/ranking system. I think the OP was looking for adjustments to the system to show much better who was the better fighter pilot. The only part of the score/rank system I look at is my data. I like to see my hit % but dont load up 50cals in bombers to tweak it, it is what it is and I fly and fight the same way month to month. This way I can see if Im getting a better "eye" from month to month. I like to see my damage % and like to keep track of total kills in a number of planes for when I hit mile stones...100, 500, 1000 and so on. I dont have the time, skill, or inclination to bother to make a run at "Top dog".

Basically my post was pointing out to the OP that the score/ranking system while setup to give even players that dont play a lot a chance to place high in different categories can be tweaked and can no way be used as a measuring stick to compare which fighter pilot is the "best" (what ever "best" is). 

[Chalenge]

I try to look at hit% to see how I’m doing, the rest can get depressing lol

I think hit% is the most important, regardless of how the system ranks everyone.

[atlau]

I think hit% is the most important, regardless of how the system ranks everyone.

But then people would only engage c47s and lancasters!

[The Fugitive]

But then people would only engage c47s and lancasters!

....if your trying to tweak the scores/ranking then yes, but if you are honest with your self and shoot the same at everything you go after then you can use it as a yardstick as compared to your other months. Dont bother comparing it to other players as you can never tell "how" they are playing the game because the game allows you that room to tweak it.

[Vinkman]

First thank you all for a good discussion and no one got snippy and sarcastic. 

After reading the OP, I thought that was what he was looking for, a way to narrow down the scoring/ranking so that it showed the "better pilot". His statement......
 

Sorry, but not what I was implying. Let me clarify...

I think I agree with HiTech's position that it is a list of positive fighter behaviors, and just ranks you in each one.  So those who choose have a goal.  I mention hit% because if you want to try to finish in the top ten or top 5 or 1st you can attempt to design your game play to improve in the categories listed.  It's a game within a game. But there are categories that improve everyone's game play (good category) and one's that would detract from everyone's fun game play (Bad Category).  For example Tracking damage to your plane, where less is better would promote running and avoiding combat, or flying very high and only BnZ-ing.  I would NOT recommend adding that to the rank, even though avoiding damage could be considered a positive fighter pilot skill. There are million stats that could be used, but these 5 were chosen. 4 seem obvious but one seems less obvious. 

so to recap I had a question and a suggestion.

The Question: Why did hit% make the list? I see a lot of negatives for conserving ammo, and listed them in the OP.

Suggestion: Adding perks or an ENY/ENY points modifier is not to determine skill, but to drive prolific killers into lower ENY planes.  This creates a more balanced game.  Newbies and the older crowd have a tough enough time not getting whacked all day by great sticks in great planes. Maybe they would have a chance if all the most prolific killers weren't flying the fasted, most heavily armored aircraft all the time. What's the incentive to fly a P-40? or a P-39, or C202?  Romance?  How's that working out? If hot shots flew some of the hangar queens on a more regular basis, the newbies in spits and La7s might even get few kills and live to talk out them in the O-Club. 
Wasn't ENY added to create force balance when the numbers get lopsided? If force balance makes game play better, then why not bake it into the score to encourage force balance all the time?   

[atlau]

Score definitely does not encourage flying the early war plane set. Each tour I try to pick a new plane as my main ride just to make things interesting (this tour I am primarily flying the P38G) but there is otherwise no real incentive to break out the hangar queens.

I'd love to see some kind of score categories where you could break score down by ENY categories or filter by plane type but I dont think it would be easy to programmer worth HTCs time.

[DmonSlyr]

....if your trying to tweak the scores/ranking then yes, but if you are honest with your self and shoot the same at everything you go after then you can use it as a yardstick as compared to your other months. Dont bother comparing it to other players as you can never tell "how" they are playing the game because the game allows you that room to tweak it.

You can only "tweak it" until the last day of the month. Once you hit over a certain amount of sorties, "tweaking" any of the metrics becomes a much harder task.

I hear what you are saying in your previous post, but I think people who dont play for rank, don't care about others perception about who is good or not. Some people like to play for rank, some get decent ranks without meaning to, some dont care. I think people who have high ranks are pretty good at the game. It shows they can maintain a playing style that is metrically successful in the MA atmosphere compared to the pool of players. Being successful in the MA metrically is a different skill set than being good in regards to ACM. Some are good at both. Many guys who are good at ACM dont care about MA score metrics.That is their choice. Some high rankers arent great at ACM or 1v1 fights. That doesnt mean they arent good in the MA though. You just have to find a away to kill them at their disadvantage.

First thank you all for a good discussion and no one got snippy and sarcastic. 

 

Sorry, but not what I was implying. Let me clarify...

I think I agree with HiTech's position that it is a list of positive fighter behaviors, and just ranks you in each one.  So those who choose have a goal.  I mention hit% because if you want to try to finish in the top ten or top 5 or 1st you can attempt to design your game play to improve in the categories listed.  It's a game within a game. But there are categories that improve everyone's game play (good category) and one's that would detract from everyone's fun game play (Bad Category).  For example Tracking damage to your plane, where less is better would promote running and avoiding combat, or flying very high and only BnZ-ing.  I would NOT recommend adding that to the rank, even though avoiding damage could be considered a positive fighter pilot skill. There are million stats that could be used, but these 5 were chosen. 4 seem obvious but one seems less obvious. 

so to recap I had a question and a suggestion.

The Question: Why did hit% make the list? I see a lot of negatives for conserving ammo, and listed them in the OP.

Suggestion: Adding perks or an ENY/ENY points modifier is not to determine skill, but to drive prolific killers into lower ENY planes.  This creates a more balanced game.  Newbies and the older crowd have a tough enough time not getting whacked all day by great sticks in great planes. Maybe they would have a chance if all the most prolific killers weren't flying the fasted, most heavily armored aircraft all the time. What's the incentive to fly a P-40? or a P-39, or C202?  Romance?  How's that working out? If hot shots flew some of the hangar queens on a more regular basis, the newbies in spits and La7s might even get few kills and live to talk out them in the O-Club. 
Wasn't ENY added to create force balance when the numbers get lopsided? If force balance makes game play better, then why not bake it into the score to encourage force balance all the time?   

I agree with your ENY comments. There really needs to be more of an incentive for players who want to play for rank to fly in older planes. I think it would be much better for  noobies.

Hit % maybe doesnt matter so much, but is an interesting metric. I dont believe K/H should be in the attack score, but that's the way it is I guess.

[atlau]

Violator - attack score is a bit weird too. If you kill a lot of gvs with bombs it significantly hurts your damage and bomb hit percentage categories since I believe those categories only count buildings.