Question about 474thFG P-38J "Baby Shoes II"

[oboe]

Turns out, this aircraft was NOT part of the 428th FS, but the 430th FS instead.   I was asking for more info about it a long while ago and learned of the discrepancy from Guppy35:

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,333561.msg4379050.html#msg4379050

Oboe, it's a pair of 'baby shoes' on the right side.  Turns out it's a 430th FS bird too not 428th.  The props should be yellow.  I found the photos in the 428th history and only fairly recently after talking to the 474th historian did he identify it correctly as a 430th bird.  Black circle on the tail too not the square, and K6 codes of the 430th.  Note the bottom profile after I adjusted it.

Since this skin is listed in the dropdown selection list as a P-38J from the 474thFG/428thFS, would there be any objection to me re-skinning a different aircraft, this time a true 428thFS plane?  I found this profile and bio for a candidate:

[Guppy35]

Terry I can get you one to do without any problem.  All kinds of 474th and 428th ideas

Stay tuned

[lyric1]

Turns out, this aircraft was NOT part of the 428th FS, but the 430th FS instead.   I was asking for more info about it a long while ago and learned of the discrepancy from Guppy35:

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,333561.msg4379050.html#msg4379050

Since this skin is listed in the dropdown selection list as a P-38J from the 474thFG/428thFS, would there be any objection to me re-skinning a different aircraft, this time a true 428thFS plane?  I found this profile and bio for a candidate:

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

[Greebo]

I know HTC can be reluctant for an existing skin to be changed to a different aircraft in case they get moaned at by a player or squad whose favourite skin has suddenly disappeared. So before creating a new skin I'd ask Hitech about whether its OK for you to do this. He could also change the name of the skin from 428th FS to 430th FS so that it matches the scheme properly. Another possibility would be to skin a 428th FS aircraft in the existing slot and also make a new 430th FS "Baby Shoes" skin.

[Devil 505]

I know HTC can be reluctant for an existing skin to be changed to a different aircraft in case they get moaned at by a player or squad whose favourite skin has suddenly disappeared. So before creating a new skin I'd ask Hitech about whether its OK for you to do this. He could also change the name of the skin from 428th FS to 430th FS so that it matches the scheme properly. Another possibility would be to skin a 428th FS aircraft in the existing slot and also make a new 430th FS "Baby Shoes" skin.

From what I remember Skuzzy telling me, they really don't want to change the skin names. Not sure why it's a big deal, but it is.

The best bet would be to skin a correct scheme for the existing name and make an all new skin for "Baby Shoes"

[LCADolby]

Turns out, this aircraft was NOT part of the 428th FS, but the 430th FS instead.   I was asking for more info about it a long while ago and learned of the discrepancy from Guppy35:

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,333561.msg4379050.html#msg4379050

I'm not one of the kuhl kidz I guess

"An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

[oboe]

Thank you Greebo,

I note the photo Lyric posted (thanks Lyric!) has a hand-written note appended, identifying "Baby Shoes II" as a ship from the 429th squadron.   Guppy35 has stated the 430th had yellow spinners, and the color of the spinners does seem to be a lighter shade than the color of the nose art, which I think is accepted as red with black trim.   

So at this point I'm only sure it was in one of the 474th's three squadrons.   Gotta get the real squadron assignment nailed down as a first step I think.

OK, here's some evidence - it doesn't get better than WWII color film:


At time index 3:29, it identifies a ship from the 430th with nose number 548, as belonging to Fred Wright, coded "K6*S" -
but this a/c is not Baby Shoes II - there is no nose art.  K6*S is ID'd as a P-38L; I supposed this film may have been made after Baby Shoes II bellied in and was destroyed, and the '38L was its replacement aircraft within the squadron.  But that is all conjecture.

Dolby, sorry - that link apparently is from a topic within the 80th's private BB forum.  Didn't realize when I included it.   The important thing is the quote I included where Guppy35 states Baby Shoes II has been misidentified as a 428th a/c.

[lyric1]

Thank you Greebo,

I note the photo Lyric posted (thanks Lyric!) has a hand-written note appended, identifying "Baby Shoes II" as a ship from the 429th squadron.   Guppy35 has stated the 430th had yellow spinners, and the color of the spinners does seem to be a lighter shade than the color of the nose art, which I think is accepted as red with black trim.   

So at this point I'm only sure it was in one of the 474th's three squadrons.   Gotta get the real squadron assignment nailed down as a first step I think.

OK, here's some evidence - it doesn't get better than WWII color film:


At time index 3:29, it identifies a ship from the 430th with nose number 548, as belonging to Fred Wright, coded "K6*S" -
but this a/c is not Baby Shoes II - there is no nose art.  K6*S is ID'd as a P-38L; I supposed this film may have been made after Baby Shoes II bellied in and was destroyed, and the '38L was its replacement aircraft within the squadron.  But that is all conjecture.

Dolby, sorry - that link apparently is from a topic within the 80th's private BB forum.  Didn't realize when I included it.   The important thing is the quote I included where Guppy35 states Baby Shoes II has been misidentified as a 428th a/c.

The photos I posted are from Facebook and are in the 474th fighter group site. The site is run by a son of one of the pilots. He posts quite a few photos taken by his father. He also pointed out the error that the photo was in fact a 430 squadron bird.

Edit:

Going back through the site someone had a drawing done of what the L model version looked like as well as a painting.

[LCADolby]

Dolby, sorry - that link apparently is from a topic within the 80th's private BB forum.  Didn't realize when I included it.   The important thing is the quote I included where Guppy35 states Baby Shoes II has been misidentified as a 428th a/c.

No worries, I was never kuhl anyway   

[Vraciu]

From what I remember Skuzzy telling me, they really don't want to change the skin names. Not sure why it's a big deal, but it is.

The best bet would be to skin a correct scheme for the existing name and make an all new skin for "Baby Shoes"

I can confirm this.   I've corrected one or two misidentified/incorrect skins and replaced it/them with different ones.

[oboe]

The mystery deepens - the painting and drawing Lyric posted of P-38L "Baby Shoes 3rd" don't match the serial number given in the video for K6*S.  "259748" in the drawing, "25548" in the video.

We'll see what Guppy comes out with for alternatives.  Baby Shoes The Second was created for a scenario; I don't think I've seen it ever flown in the MA. 

[lyric1]

The mystery deepens - the painting and drawing Lyric posted of P-38L "Baby Shoes 3rd" don't match the serial number given in the video for K6*S.  "259748" in the drawing, "25548" in the video.

We'll see what Guppy comes out with for alternatives.  Baby Shoes The Second was created for a scenario; I don't think I've seen it ever flown in the MA.

Video is right drawing wrong.

"25548 (474th FG, 430th FS) lost Mar 18, 1945.  MACR 13163"

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1944_1.html

[Guppy35]

I have an image of the other side.  Being part of the 474th FG Association helps   I'll dig it out and post it.

[Guppy35]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Note that the caption says 429th when in fact it was a 430th kite.  I saw it first in "Geyser Gang" which was the history of the 428th FS, 474th

[lyric1]

Note that the caption says 429th when in fact it was a 430th kite.  I saw it first in "Geyser Gang" which was the history of the 428th FS, 474th

It didn't escape me.