Research Assistance Requested - P-51D "Stinger VII" - 15th FG, 45FS

[lyric1]

Found the smoking gun.

(Image removed from quote.)

Here is the images that we have.

Painted spinner solid colour no wing stripes.



Painted solid spinner no wing stripes.



No wing stripes bare metal spinner.



Wing stripes bare metal spinner.

[lyric1]

Here is the images that we have.

Painted spinner solid colour no wing stripes.

(Image removed from quote.)

Painted solid spinner no wing stripes.

(Image removed from quote.)

No wing stripes bare metal spinner.

(Image removed from quote.)

Wing stripes bare metal spinner.

(Image removed from quote.)

Found the answer. 
Two paint schemes for the same plane early version and a late version.
Wing stripes were early scheme no wing stripes late scheme.
We had it arse backwards. 


https://arcforums.com/Gal14/13301-13400/gal13345-P-51-Rossmann/00.shtm

 

[Vraciu]

That jives with the commentary about the markings being simplified later.

Why no squadron badge?  Was it deleted?

[Vraciu]

Since we have clear evidence of diagonal wing stripes with no spinner paint I'm going with that. 

How many victory flags would he have had?  Does that photo have a date?

[lyric1]

He had 12 total at wars end. The book may have that answer with dates. One I know was in a P-40.

[Vraciu]

It looks like the spinner was the LAST thing to get paint, and this would have been after the diagonal wing stripes were deleted.

[Vraciu]

Found this narrative. 

I think I can safely put nine victory flags on the old paint scheme at least.

https://www.7thfighter.com/78th/moore/todd.htm

[Waltz41]

Ok....sorry I'm late to the party.

So are you looking to do Moore's Stinger (45th FS)??  or VanDeHey's Jeanie (78th FS)? 

Both units belonged to the 15th FG and arrived on Iwo in March 1945.  They started off with more colorful markings, the 45th with the green wing and tail bands, the 78th with yellow and black wing and tail stripes.  At some point (most sometime in August) they switched to simpler markings.  Just green wing/tail tips for 45th, and yellow wing/tail tips for 78th).

Moore's Stinger VII, serial number 44-63843, was originally called Tom Cat, flown Major 'Buck' Snipes, who was a veteran pilot for the 45th flying P-40N's in the central pacific in 1943-44.  Snipes had a victory in the very first VLR mission on April 7, 1945.  He not too long after was sent back to the states, and Moore took over his P-51, and renamed it for his series of aircraft, Stinger.   Moore was the leading VLR ace, who had 11 victories  (plus one in the central pacific).

What questions do you guys have on them?  As far as the green goes, I can tell you that no one has a definitive shade down....I have seen some to say it's more of an apple green, so a bit on the lighter side, but then so many profiles go with a brighter green.

[Waltz41]

I didn't finish writing my answer apparently.   Got distracted.  Yellow trim is not 45th FS.

I can't find anything that explicitly states what squadron it is, however, the squadron emblem shown is not from the 45th.  One source shows that makes it the 78th FS.

Also, I believe each squadron, generally speaking, used a single series of numbers, 100s, 200s, 300s, etc.   This being a 100 series combined with the squadron logo makes it 78th FS whereas the 45th used two-digit numbers.

15th Fighter Group P-51's consisted of the 45th FS (#50-99), 47th FS (#150-199), and 78th FS (#100-149)

[Vraciu]

Ah, there you go.  Good stuff.   Thank you.

We're doing Stinger VII with the diagonal wing markings.   I guess at this point I'm down to number of victory flags and spinner color.  I'm guessing a bare metal spinner in any case.

[Vraciu]

Moore's Stinger VII, serial number 44-63843, was originally called Tom Cat, flown Major 'Buck' Snipes, who was a veteran pilot for the 45th flying P-40N's in the central pacific in 1943-44.  Snipes had a victory in the very first VLR mission on April 7, 1945. 

Tom Kat, yes, that's it.   I was going by memory and had SAR on the brain.  Apparently that airplane's S/N is not fully known...

[Waltz41]

I have San Antonio Rose (#77) as 44-63438 in my notes.

Yeah, I would go metal spinner if you are doing Stinger VII with the wing stripes.  TomKat had the green/black spinner to start.  My guess is a propeller change at some point and got a unpainted spinner.  Then Moore took it over to Stinger.....and eventually got the simplified markings.

For victories, just depends on when you want the aircraft to be 'represented'.  Moore had kills in 1945: with the 78th FS -  April 7 (2), April 22 (1), May 25 (2).  With the 45th FS - May 29 (3), June 7 (1), June 10 (1), August 10 (1).   His other kill came on Jan 26, 1944 in a P-40N.

[Vraciu]

I have San Antonio Rose (#77) as 44-63438 in my notes.

Yeah, I would go metal spinner if you are doing Stinger VII with the wing stripes.  TomKat had the green/black spinner to start.  My guess is a propeller change at some point and got a unpainted spinner.  Then Moore took it over to Stinger.....and eventually got the simplified markings.

For victories, just depends on when you want the aircraft to be 'represented'.  Moore had kills in 1945: with the 78th FS -  April 7 (2), April 22 (1), May 25 (2).  With the 45th FS - May 29 (3), June 7 (1), June 10 (1), August 10 (1).   His other kill came on Jan 26, 1944 in a P-40N.

This explains the potential confusion as the last three numbers are the same, just transposed.

I guess I should paint it with the max total of victories it would have had before the wing stripes were removed.   Does the photo shoot of him off the right side of the nose have a date stamp?

[Waltz41]

Unfortunately no.   I just checked as it's an official USAAF photo.  No date :-(

[Vraciu]

Thanks, man.