Why were all of the maps with GV spawn battles removed from AH3?

[Wiley]

I am providing serious examples of why the #s are declining and all you guys do is sit here and mock me while the #s are declining. It's pure insanity.

Dude, simply put you are waxing ad nauseum making relatively average observations.  You made your point a couple years ago.  Repeatedly harping on it is of questionable value.

Wiley.

[DmonSlyr]

Dude, simply put you are waxing ad nauseum making relatively average observations.  You made your point a couple years ago.  Repeatedly harping on it is of questionable value.

Wiley.

I will wax on until I see changes. Apparently you didn't understand me.

Nothing to do with a weak society and everything to with your act has grown old. I like to stay out of this type of garbage but your opinions aren't fact and only represent you and your beliefs on the game no matter how many times you have to tell everyone.

I took that part out, but It definitely does have something to do with it. It's not an act. It's not beliefs. It's called observation over years of playing at a top level. Its called understanding the monthly kill #s. Why doesn't that matter?  Again, look at the average K/H for most players. It's not even 5. How do you expect to keep players with that?

Instead of rationalizing why #s are consistently declining and fights are becoming smaller and poorer, I cant even play during the afternoons anymore unless I want to play by myself. Yall sit here and mock me and don't ask for something to change like Maps, trees, ENY ect. While the #s are declining. Again, It's insanity.

[Wiley]

I will wax on until I see changes. Apparently you didn't understand me.

I understand just fine.  You've made your point repeatedly and are pissed nothing's being done.  If he wanted to, he would've by now.  You're bringing nothing that wasn't visible the first time you made the point.  You're also pissed that the anticipated groundswell of people rallying behind you didn't happen.  Like I said, guy on streetcorner.

Wiley.

[DmonSlyr]

I understand just fine.  You've made your point repeatedly and are pissed nothing's being done.  If he wanted to, he would've by now.  You're bringing nothing that wasn't visible the first time you made the point.  You're also pissed that the anticipated groundswell of people rallying behind you didn't happen.  Like I said, guy on streetcorner.

Wiley.

I guess my question then is why are they so happy #s are declining and fights are drying up? It's turned into an evening game for US eastern time for a bunch of old guys.

Why are we pandering to people who enjoy playing by themselves and don't need #s to have fun. That seems to be a failing recipe wouldn't you say?

[LNG15]

Whoa-Whoa! I am 24 I am a young guy still who plays this game. Most youngins are either working a lot, or something else. I am not a GVer at all, I suck at it in truth and just have lucky moments and that's it. I mostly fly, but will drive a gv when needed. For me it's personal preference if I want to fly and not drive GVs

[Wiley]

I guess my question then is why are they so happy #s are declining and fights are drying up? It's turned into an evening game for US eastern time for a bunch of old guys.

Why are we pandering to people who enjoy playing by themselves and don't need #s to have fun. That seems to be a failing recipe wouldn't you say?

That I know of, nobody's saying "Hooray for numbers being down."  Can't speak for anyone but me, but to get the attention of the people you seem to want, it would require the game to completely change.  Shortening up the base distances helps a bit, but I don't think it's enough to provide anything more than a slight uptick in numbers.  It's not going to bring in a bunch of newbies becaise even with short distances, 5 minutes isn't materially better than 10 for the guy that dies in 2 turns.

Most of the people that are still here are still here because they prefer the ongoing war vs the 2 even teams being led around by the nose gameplay of brand X.  Otherwise, they'd be playing brand X.  When this is good, it's the best online experience I know of.  When it's not, it's still better than most as long as I can find 3 or 4 bandits operating in an area to fight with with my friends.

Brand X isn't.  And to get the numbers like Brand X, it would require changing this into something it currently isn't.

Yeah, yeah, evolve or die.  Except evolution doesn't occur over the lifespan of a thing.  One dies, and the offspring is improved in some way that lets it survive better in its current environment than its parents.  AHIII is the parent these days, not the offspring like it was when WB died.

Additionally, I think you read a lot into the alleged motivation of "pandering to people who don't need numbers".  I think a lot of it is unintended consequences of things that are still a legitimate improvement over the alternative, like vehicle icons for example.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

Whoa-Whoa! I am 24 I am a young guy still who plays this game. Most youngins are either working a lot, or something else. I am not a GVer at all, I suck at it in truth and just have lucky moments and that's it. I mostly fly, but will drive a gv when needed. For me it's personal preference if I want to fly and not drive GVs

Mostly "something else."  There were plenty of young guys and even squeakers back in the day.  They played plenty despite school and jobs.

That was back before there was so much other multi-player combat gaming alternatives.  Now there is a lot of competition from deep pocket developers that produce products with superior graphics, faster gameplay, and monetization models that are more inline with their expectations today.

It's not so much a failure of AHIII, but the rise of the competition. Wiley is sorta right.  It would take changes more than releasing a new skins pack to reverse the trend.  That's not going to happen.  I had hoped Pacific War could be a new platform to go a different direction, but the direction chosen was...not what I was hoping for. 

It's not going to change in any material way at this point, IMHO.  The numbers aren't coming back.  But the remaining old AW/WB geezers will hang around until they take their final face-plant into a dirt-nap.  Still, I opened the client just to check numbers Sat in the middle of the day.  80 players.  80.  In the middle of a Sat afternoon.  That was shocking even given it's Summer.  And I bet a third of players were sitting in a tower or on auto-pilot yucking it up with their buddies.  That's not a bad thing, but probably illustrative of why so many are not concerned with game play pacing or numbers.  Intense action packed gameplay probably isn't the primary reason a lot come still.  It's become mainly a social platform.  Hanging out with guys they've known for 20 years.  A cross somewhere between a lonely-grandpa-chat-room and a hospice.

It's a pity.  The core simulation code is quite good.  The VR implementation is superior.  The graphics are not too bad really.  I think there the main issue is the resolution of the terrain modelling.  It's very blocky and makes the graphics look poorer that they are capable of.  I understand the technical issues with the shear size of the maps, but a multi-resolution map design would do wonders with the existing graphics engine.  High resolution around the bases and areas of interest, low resolutions in the vast empty areas.  Currently it just has a very course, lego look to it.

Mainly the issue are gameplay design and monetization model.  Those were both great in their day, but the market has moved on in 20 years.

If you are having fun, just enjoy it while it lasts.  All products have a life cycle.

[DmonSlyr]

That I know of, nobody's saying "Hooray for numbers being down."  Can't speak for anyone but me, but to get the attention of the people you seem to want, it would require the game to completely change.  Shortening up the base distances helps a bit, but I don't think it's enough to provide anything more than a slight uptick in numbers.  It's not going to bring in a bunch of newbies becaise even with short distances, 5 minutes isn't materially better than 10 for the guy that dies in 2 turns.

Most of the people that are still here are still here because they prefer the ongoing war vs the 2 even teams being led around by the nose gameplay of brand X.  Otherwise, they'd be playing brand X.  When this is good, it's the best online experience I know of.  When it's not, it's still better than most as long as I can find 3 or 4 bandits operating in an area to fight with with my friends.

Brand X isn't.  And to get the numbers like Brand X, it would require changing this into something it currently isn't.

Yeah, yeah, evolve or die.  Except evolution doesn't occur over the lifespan of a thing.  One dies, and the offspring is improved in some way that lets it survive better in its current environment than its parents.  AHIII is the parent these days, not the offspring like it was when WB died.

Additionally, I think you read a lot into the alleged motivation of "pandering to people who don't need numbers".  I think a lot of it is unintended consequences of things that are still a legitimate improvement over the alternative, like vehicle icons for example.

Wiley.

Mostly "something else."  There were plenty of young guys and even squeakers back in the day.  They played plenty despite school and jobs.

That was back before there was so much other multi-player combat gaming alternatives.  Now there is a lot of competition from deep pocket developers that produce products with superior graphics, faster gameplay, and monetization models that are more inline with their expectations today.

It's not so much a failure of AHIII, but the rise of the competition. Wiley is sorta right.  It would take changes more than releasing a new skins pack to reverse the trend.  That's not going to happen.  I had hoped Pacific War could be a new platform to go a different direction, but the direction chosen was...not what I was hoping for. 

It's not going to change in any material way at this point, IMHO.  The numbers aren't coming back.  But the remaining old AW/WB geezers will hang around until they take their final face-plant into a dirt-nap.  Still, I opened the client just to check numbers Sat in the middle of the day.  80 players.  80.  In the middle of a Sat afternoon.  That was shocking even given it's Summer.  And I bet a third of players were sitting in a tower or on auto-pilot yucking it up with their buddies.  That's not a bad thing, but probably illustrative of why so many are not concerned with game play pacing or numbers.  Intense action packed gameplay probably isn't the primary reason a lot come still.  It's become mainly a social platform.  Hanging out with guys they've known for 20 years.  A cross somewhere between a lonely-grandpa-chat-room and a hospice.

It's a pity.  The core simulation code is quite good.  The VR implementation is superior.  The graphics are not too bad really.  I think there the main issue is the resolution of the terrain modelling.  It's very blocky and makes the graphics look poorer that they are capable of.  I understand the technical issues with the shear size of the maps, but a multi-resolution map design would do wonders with the existing graphics engine.  High resolution around the bases and areas of interest, low resolutions in the vast empty areas.  Currently it just has a very course, lego look to it.

Mainly the issue are gameplay design and monetization model.  Those were both great in their day, but the market has moved on in 20 years.

If you are having fun, just enjoy it while it lasts.  All products have a life cycle.

I appreciate both of these educated responses. I dont expect us to see 1000 players in the arena. I'd just like to go back to 220-250 atleast. We would see some really good fights.

 I think its very simple besides some of your more complex reasons that would cost good money. Get rid of 15 year old maps and replace them with new maps that are better designed for the current player base. There were only 80 players on sat afternoon because it was a 15 year old map that people are tired of called Mindnao which is small, but very mountainy and still far bases, not identical on all sides. No action for knights that day. I have a pic on my comp at home for my experiment of that map action that day. Ive posted those other maps in other threads. I can tell that many players are tired of it. Easy cheap fix there.  The tree situations with some of these maps that would bring back great tank battles. Easy fix there. Re-evaluate certain planes and tanks ENYs. People are tired of fighting 5 yak3s every sortie. Easy fix there. Change the AVA arena name to Team Death match and leave out the perk rides. Easy fix there, change the map every week, keep it to those real small maps. The match play just needs to go back to the original DA, leave scoring and AI out of it. There is no free fight area in AH now like there was, no one in there now. Pretty easy fix. Make the dars harder to destroy on bases. Easy fix there.

These are some of the main issues I see long term players have. I think its smaller nuanced simple issues that are forcing long term players to go find something else to play that's more actionable. I still think AH is the best all around fighter plane and tank strategy game. It's just that people don't have the patience for long slow flights/drives anymore and I've seen that issue since the day I started playing in the MA. 

[RotBaron]

Mindanao might be my least favorite map, right up there with NDisles, and the new CraterMA

[lunaticfringe]

Mindanao might be my least favorite map, right up there with NDisles, and the new CraterMA

CraterMA is not a New map

[Devil 505]

Mindanao might be my least favorite map, right up there with NDisles, and the new CraterMA

NDisles is great. Center island is usually hopping as long as some dingus did not start rolling bases in the off hours.

[The Fugitive]

CraterMA is not a New map

I am very sure he was saying the new VERSION of crater map, because it is a new version.

[scott66]

I don't like it when mommy and daddy are fighting!

[RotBaron]

I am very sure he was saying the new VERSION of crater map, because it is a new version.

Yes, correct!  The original CraterMA was fantastic, especially Tank Town.

This version TT is a ghost town along with other changes to it that don’t make it a fan favorite anymore.

[JimmyD3]

There is NO viable TT on any map in AH3.