Has anybody ever tried a ETO MA?

[The Fugitive]

first, click "save as...." and please! save them as a jpeg!   

Second, it looks like for most of the map once you start taking bases you'll be flying in puffy.

[oboe]

Here it is:


I see what Fugi is saying, perhaps remove the Flak bases that you've put near the Ports, and go down to one flak base per strat target?

Or, maybe only have Flak bases near Strat targets that are located on the edge of the map?   I would also having no GV spawns into strat targets. 

[JimmyD3]

Fugi, I know there is a way to display the picture in the forum, I just don't know how to do it. I can save the file as a JPEG and will do so in the future, if I don't forget.

As to all the flak bases, I just can't imagine a strategic asset not having some added protection, I will however comply with the request. I will say that the Cities, IMHO, should have at least 1 flak base due to their accessibility. Maybe what I should do is go extreme the other way, no flak bases.

I'm actually having a lot of fun with this map. I still have not done the spawn points, nor fine tuned the terrain/trees. Flying around in cms/eye mode it looks awesome!

[oboe]

Kenai, I really appreciate the work you're doing on this terrain, and am glad to here you are having fun with it!   Every suggestion I make has to be taken with a grain of salt, as I have no terrain building experience.   Having said that:

- I think Red country;s Fuel strat is too close to front lines.  No other country has a strat so close to enemy fields.

- I agree with flakbase protection for strats, however the current map has flakbases around some ports and if the goal is to trim down the number of flakbases, I think these Port flakbases could be removed without too much negative effect.

- I am not much of a strategic bomber, so I don't know how much flak a flakbase puts up against attacking bombers, or why it might be necessary to have 2 flakbases per strat.  But I have seen this configuration in MA terrains.  Perhaps it's overkill, and one would suffice?

- The map has 6 small AFs, 7 medium AFs, and 7 large AFs per country.   I'm not sure what the correct/best distribution is, but it seems to me that small AFs should be the most numerous, followed by medium AFs, and then large AFs.   Maybe replace one of the large AFs with a small AF for each country?   I really like that you've made Paris a large AF, but perhaps there should be at least one small AF along the French northern coast?

- I think the 3-way GV bases around Switzerland is a good idea.   Perhaps each of these GV bases should have a spawn pt into a central ground combat area.   Is it possible to make GV bases uncapturable?

That's all I've got for now.  I'm really excited to see this terrain and see how it plays out in the MA.

Thanks again for your efforts!

[The Fugitive]

No Problem Kenai, I just hate using the bandwidth on my phone to see your map, I have to wait until I get home. Just dont have the patience 

I understand what your saying about the protection, but that should be up to the players to provide. If you make it a nightmare to fly, whos going to want to play that map? Id remove the ones at the ports, and only keep one at each strat.

I like the base count. I think if you push for a larger percentage of small bases over medium and large your setting it up for quicker base grabs and rolling a map. A few small bases to get started, but then the bigger base sure dominate to slow the base grab down.

I dont think Hitech will allow "uncapturable" GV bases. It was brought up years ago for the "ndisles" map and he didnt like it then. For the longest time he didnt like a "tank town" area on a map either but well the only way to know for sure is to ask him.

[JimmyD3]

Excellent suggestions gentlemen, will try to get these implemented next. Adding or deleting a base is not a big issue, nor is moving one. It only gets tedious after you set the spawn points.

[oboe]

Awesome - and if the central 3 GV bases are intended to form a "tank town" for GV play, you could move them as close to each other as practicable, with each have a single spawn into the central combat area - which could be a mix of trees/open space and those small villages.   No opposing spawns into the Vbases, but perhaps defensive spawns supporting the VBase from other of the country's fields - to make them harder to capture and remove any tactical reason for their capture, other than adding to the base totals.

Will the Alps be high enough to have snow capped peaks?

[JimmyD3]

Will the Alps be high enough to have snow capped peaks?

If we want, the peaks are very steep due to the scale of the map, areas adjacent to bases and spawn points will have to be smoothed out. But again a normal map production routine. I'm thinking we do spawn points from the base to the towns, as Bustr and Kong did on their maps. This seems to enhance the gv activity.

[JimmyD3]

Here it is w/o the flak bases and the minor base count changes.......

[JimmyD3]

Some early ideas on spawn points..........

[oboe]

Some early ideas on spawn points..........

Personally, I'm not a fan of cross-water vehicle spawns.  I'd rather see an actual amphibious invasion required where necessary.  But it may be a necessary concession to game play.  'Course, it could also make up for England's disadvantage of strats being more exposed to naval bombardment?   It looks like A2 and A3 locations could be switched - Paris, could be the larger airfield, but its real world location is closer to A2.   I'm also partial to small airfields along the northern French coast...
 


More comments coming as I can think of them, but will you be able to form the Rock of Gilbraltar?  Very important lankmark, as are the Cliffs of Dover on the Channel...

[JimmyD3]

IMOH, over water spawns are essential for good game play. Albeit duplex spawns may not be needed. In the case of A29, I believe one spawn in (from A5) is needed, however the spawn form A19 to A29 could be eliminated. With A19 and A20 duplex spawns, they are covered. I think game play is enhanced when components are not geographically isolated.

Swapping A2 and A3 is no problem. Moving Small airfields up on the French North coast could be done by switching A4 and A16.

I think we have to work on the imbalance on Red/Green front. I think I need to move the Large airfields A24 and A51 back from the front.

I will try to duplicate the Rock of Gibraltar, and the Cliffs of Dover, but at best they will be approximations.
Keep giving me feedback, I’m having fun so far. Hope you are seeing what you wanted. 

[oboe]

IMOH, over water spawns are essential for good game play. Albeit duplex spawns may not be needed. In the case of A29, I believe one spawn in (from A5) is needed, however the spawn form A19 to A29 could be eliminated. With A19 and A20 duplex spawns, they are covered. I think game play is enhanced when components are not geographically isolated.

Swapping A2 and A3 is no problem. Moving Small airfields up on the French North coast could be done by switching A4 and A16.

I think we have to work on the imbalance on Red/Green front. I think I need to move the Large airfields A24 and A51 back from the front.

I will try to duplicate the Rock of Gibraltar, and the Cliffs of Dover, but at best they will be approximations.
Keep giving me feedback, I’m having fun so far. Hope you are seeing what you wanted. 

Yes sir, thank you!  Very excited about the prospect of flying on this map, and I hope we can achieve balance even with the asymmetry of real-world locations and land masses.  I'd like to see it be able to support strategic bombing of enemy population centers and industrial targets, large air-supported land battles in the East and in the Ardennes, amphibious invasions of North Africa or Italy, air assaults on Crete and/or Malta, etc.

Might I also suggest moving London city a little closer to iot real-world location, and moving the large airfield to the real world location of Norwich - there were many 8th AF bomber fields in the Norfolk/Suffolk/Norwich area.   You could move a small AF A25 to the English Channel coast near the former location of the large AF.   The the Fuel Strat could be placed west of Birmingham, where A25 was formerly.

Also, the Rock of Gilbraltar had 2 shore batteries built into its sides.  Really commanded the entrance to the Mediterranean.

btw, was up the other day and a set of buffs overflew a target protected by a flak base.  The amount of puffy ack it threw up was amazing!

[JimmyD3]

Here are the latest changes to the map. I have most of the spawns laid out for the Red country, note these are interior spawns only. I will set up the cross country spawns after all the interior spawns are done.

[oboe]

Here are the latest changes to the map. I have most of the spawns laid out for the Red country, note these are interior spawns only. I will set up the cross country spawns after all the interior spawns are done.