Mossys and Lightnings- Twin Engine Fighters

[Tig]

Okay so I've started falling in love with the De Havilland Mosquito Mk 6. I actually just landed an Ace 5-kill streak in the Mossy a few minutes ago. For this tour at least, I'm sitting on 5 kills in the Mossy with no deaths (although I have had some extremely close landings, I got shredded).
I haven't played around with the Lightning yet, but am interested in learning it, but I need to know more about how I should approach this.

The way I figure it, the twin engine fighters are best to fly like a juggernaut- lots of BnZ, dive, and head ons with minimal turning against single engine fighters.

But I always seem to have problems because of that lack of maneuverability. I'm used to really twitchy stuff like the Spit 16. And it always feels like when I take things vertical that the singe engine fighters still out climb me, since I have a lot of extra weight to go with the second engine.

So what am I missing here? Is there some kind of trick to getting good with twin engines? I love the Mossy and want to get better with it.

[FLS]

Flaps.

[Tig]

Flaps.

Ah. Of course.

Is there a chart somewhere that tells me the max speed for flaps in different planes? I only know a few.

And if I want to roll faster, do I use the rudder? Is there usually a pronounced torque twist in the twins?

[morfiend]

38 has counter-rotating props so no torque,mossie does not.

Mossie flaps deploy first notch at about 200 mph, 38 can deploy at around 250 mph. Mossie tops out at close to 390 at around 18k and the 38 will do close to 420 at about 25k. The speed and climb charts can be found in the clip board,select plane and right click then choose speed or climb chart.

You must be careful in 38 to not over speed as it goes into compressibility at a very low speed,iirc it about .68 Mach.

If you are interested in the 38 ask shuffler for some help or maybe ack ack if you can find him.

[The Fugitive]

Okay so I've started falling in love with the De Havilland Mosquito Mk 6. I actually just landed an Ace 5-kill streak in the Mossy a few minutes ago. For this tour at least, I'm sitting on 5 kills in the Mossy with no deaths (although I have had some extremely close landings, I got shredded).
I haven't played around with the Lightning yet, but am interested in learning it, but I need to know more about how I should approach this.

The way I figure it, the twin engine fighters are best to fly like a juggernaut- lots of BnZ, dive, and head ons with minimal turning against single engine fighters.

But I always seem to have problems because of that lack of maneuverability. I'm used to really twitchy stuff like the Spit 16. And it always feels like when I take things vertical that the singe engine fighters still out climb me, since I have a lot of extra weight to go with the second engine.

So what am I missing here? Is there some kind of trick to getting good with twin engines? I love the Mossy and want to get better with it.

First I got to say I love your enthusiasm, but to be one of the better fighters you should try and avoid head-ons. A HO is a 50-50 joust the better player work to get shots to damage/kill with out giving the oppenate a shot to shoot back. Its a habit you should learn to not get into now. Sure there are going to be times your head-on to someone because thats the only move they do, or in your avoidance of another con you end up head-on with a second con.  Whether you pull the trigger at these times its up to you, but the better players or those looking to "fight" dont.

The 38s all maneuver very well. G best, then the J and finally the L. Center mount guns means no convergence so you can tickle them a bit farther out than the other planes. The 38 excels in the "rope" due to its counter rotating props, it has a great zoom climb due to its weight and popping flaps at the top you can STILL have control at 75 mph. Rudder will help with the roll, but it wont be like a 190. 1 vs 1 a 38 can get low and slow and still out turn most planes.

The mossie isnt that fast compared to the other planes and it zoom isnt any where near the 38s. Also when slow and the flaps are out it can turn but the props turning in the same direction really make it twitchy. Its biggest advantage are the guns. One good hit and it is usually enough. BnZ, but be careful not to get too low on E. Reset and try again.

[FLS]

Ah. Of course.

Is there a chart somewhere that tells me the max speed for flaps in different planes? I only know a few.

And if I want to roll faster, do I use the rudder? Is there usually a pronounced torque twist in the twins?

If you trim the P-38 full up it will loop by itself. Then you can play with flaps as a variable.

Another advantage to the P-38 is that it won't torque off in a vertical stall fight.

When stalled the P-38 will yaw with throttle. I posted a film earlier showing that.

Flaps auto retract as you go faster so that gives you an idea of the max speeds in different a/c. Film makes it easier to catch.

Rudder generally improves roll. You can also unload before you roll, just like you unload to accelerate.

[FLS]

Flaps are high lift devices. They change the wing shape and performance. Flaps increase lift but also increase drag so a common question is how to use them properly to improve turning.

For a clue we can look at the Bf-109 which has slats as well as flaps. Slats are also high lift devices which change the wing shape and performance.  In the Bf-109 they extend automatically from air pressure changes resulting from Angle Of Attack changes. They are designed to extend when you need to increase lift but you are nearing the stall AOA of your wing. When you decrease AOA the slats retract. Flying the Bf-109 so that the slats don't extend keeps the drag lower.

Slats are adding lift and drag automatically to prevent stalling.

When you use flaps you are adding lift and drag manually to prevent stalling.

You extend flaps when you need to and retract them as soon as you can.

Turn performance is shown in the cockpit as speed and G. When you add flaps for turning you're looking for an increase in G load greater than your increase in drag. This usually means no more than half flaps. More than half is usually for landing.

[Mongoose]

When you use flaps you are adding lift and drag manually to prevent stalling.

You extend flaps when you need to and retract them as soon as you can.

Turn performance is shown in the cockpit as speed and G. When you add flaps for turning you're looking for an increase in G load greater than your increase in drag. This usually means no more than half flaps. More than half is usually for landing.

In game this translates to two notches of flaps for turning.  Some will argue for three notches, but I have found two notches works well. You have to be at 250 mph or below to lower flaps.  They will come up automatically if you go above 250.

The J model had several improvements over time.  The L model took all these improvements and added a slightly stronger engine.  In game, the J model is the early J before all the improvements.  The L model has power boosted ailerons, dive flaps, and can carry ten HVAR rockets.
 

[Mongoose]

For information about the Mosquito, check out this thread:

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,360316.0.html

[Ack-Ack]

Ignore the comment about the J being more maneuverable than the L, it is not.  Because of the boosted flight controls and dive flaps that can be used in high speed turns, the L has the edge over the J.  The L model is the definitive P-38 model in the game.

[Tig]

Flaps.

So, I've been getting serious with the Mossy again lately.

I got into a dogfight in my Mossy against a Spitfire Mk 8.
HOLY COW you were right, the flaps are absolutely insane on the Mossy in vertical maneuvers! I was able to consistently get my nose-on before he could and blew his wing off! 

As of now it's the only airplane I have a positive K/D in I believe, aside from 1 hit wonder planes where I've only really flown them once. Maybe I was destined to be a Mossy pilot? 

[FLS]

If you put together a standard aerobatic routine in your favorite aircraft you can use that routine to compare different aircraft. Looping a B-29 may not be useful but it is instructive. A less extreme example is flying the model variants through the same aerobatic routine to note the differences.

[atlau]

Ignore the comment about the J being more maneuverable than the L, it is not.  Because of the boosted flight controls and dive flaps that can be used in high speed turns, the L has the edge over the J.  The L model is the definitive P-38 model in the game.

Ack-ack i often find myself in a high-speed stall in the 38L when I don't expect it. Dive flaps mess with handling at lower airspeed?

[Drano]

They have almost no effect at slow speed. They're designed to redirect the airflow coming over the center of the wing away from the elevator at high speed. At high speed in dives it was found the airflow coming around the front of the wing and center pod met at the elevator essentially locking it up. The recovery flap largely solved this giving back some elevator control. Don't think of them as dive brakes, which they aren't. Dive flaps are designed to slow the plane down. These don't because they aren't.

Using flaps in the 38 it's usually only 1 or 2 notches. 3 tops. More than that either for landing or to stop you from literally falling out of the sky!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Tig]

Flaps are interesting, they're an art in themselves.

I rarely go into horizontal turns when fighting in my Mossy, only when I have to. If it carries on for awhile I might kick out my flaps, but I use the Mosquito's vertical strength in dogfights more. In Spitfires I'll tend to scissor and barrel roll. 

My favorite tactic is to bounce someone with a few thousand feet advantage, and if someone starts closing in on my six, I'll go straight vertical, WEP, then when my IAS hits about 160 and the Merlins start trying to spin me I'll kick out two notches of flaps and full stick back, almost tail-flipping it (a trick I learned in the 262  ) and allowing me to drop in on their tail after they bleed energy chasing me, while I get to use the Mossy's killer diving power and guns. 

In the Mosquito's case, I don't feel bad for using a big alt advantage and BnZing at times. I still prefer a good old turn fight, but the late game monster planes make the sky really unfriendly to a 1943 Mosquito. She gets outpaced at most alts, so I have to count on starting the fight at the top. She's a quirky enough bird that I don't feel guilty for the occasional BnZ kill.