Who wants a secure border?

[CptTrips]

You mean the ones that the cartels will just tunnel under anyway?

Or just uses a $5 ladder to go over.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/trump-border-wall-ladders/

[-gg-]

It's just like a wall around the gated community. Anybody can get a ladder and get over any wall, but most people will not.

The border wall is very effective. Ask the border patrol agents that work the border.

And of course why wouldn't it be? Most of the people that come across are just ordinary people and families. Do you think ordinary people women and children are going to scale a wall or break through it? Part of the whole thing is a deterrent. It's a barrier that is not insignificant.

Of course people cut through it and break it or maybe even tunnel under it. But that's better than not having a wall at all. That secures huge areas of border. Also the wall was meant to have sensors in it so that people could be alerted to people climbing on it or cutting it. It was just all never finished because of Biden.

We need a wall in the areas where it's practical along with the technology and the manpower and the will to actually stop people from coming over.

It's both parties really. This has been an ongoing issue forever and nobody is done anything about it. Nobody even wanted to do anything about it because they thought it was too politically incorrect, or maybe they just like having the cheap labor in the influx of people.

Like it or not, a country cannot grow unless the population is growing. That's what a lot of older countries are having a problem with. Population growth being almost zero. Places like Japan. A lot of places in Europe. Their populations get older and older and Are retiring and not working in her creating more of a burden on the workforce.

So there is something to be said for the illegal immigrants that do come here. I'm not actually against those people because I like them a lot and most of them I've ever met have always been really great people and hard workers. The ones that I personally know I would never want to kick out of the country.

But we have to have a system in a rule of law that everybody abides by. We have to secure the border. We can do it.

[CptTrips]

We need a wall in the areas where it's practical along with the technology and the manpower and the will to actually stop people from coming over.

Which is what I said like 5 topics ago.

In some urban border areas a solid wall is practical.  Other areas just simple fencing is most feasible.  The VAST majority of the border is better controlled with remote sensors and drone surveillance.

No need to waster hundreds of billions on an unneeded, ineffective Trump vanity wall stretching 2000 miles that can be defeated with $5 ladders.

[-gg-]

Which is what I said like 5 topics ago.

In some urban border areas a solid wall is practical.  Other areas just simple fencing is most feasible.  The VAST majority of the border is better controlled with remote sensors and drone surveillance.

No need to waster hundreds of billions on an unneeded, ineffective Trump vanity wall stretching 2000 miles that can be defeated with $5 ladders.

even though I saw that you said that, you still go back to sayin that it's a 2000 mile "vanity" wall and that's not what anyone was ever saying.

A wall plus the technology was what it was always supposed to be.

[CptTrips]

A wall plus the technology was what it was always supposed to be.

And Mexico was supposed to pay for it.  LoL

[-gg-]

So what? You agree we can do it with a wall and technology, right? Trump tried to do that and you mock it. Why is that? Just because it was Trump and you hate Trump?

Stupid-ass politics  and pettiness. Why do you care who gets it done? I would support Biden's efforts if he wanted to get it done.

We need it and we can afford to pay for it. He have a defense budget of almost 700 billion a year.

[CptTrips]

So what?

First things, first.  You admit Trump lied to Americans for years on how his vanity wall was going to be funded?

[-gg-]

You're hopeless.

He didn't get it done. that doesn't mean he lied. Bit that is not even the point of this thread. The point is that we need border security and you want to ignore that and focus on Trump.

We could finish the wall and secure the border in a very short amount of time.

[CptTrips]

You're hopeless.

Too painful to admit the obvious?  OK. 

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

[-gg-]

Too painful to admit the obvious?  OK. 

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

You are the one deflecting and introducing strawman arguments. This discussion is not about Trump, it's about securing the border.

You agree we need to do and and that we could do it with a wall and technology, but you deflect that and it all comes down to "Trump lied" and that's where it ends with you.

Pathetic and stupid.

[CptTrips]

You are the one deflecting and introducing strawman arguments.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Did Trump, or did he not, lie about how his vanity wall would be funded?

[-gg-]

No, I don't think that he lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I think he believed that Mexico would pay for the wall.

And by pay for the wall I never felt that Trump was saying that Mexico would directly pay for the wall with a written check.

What Trump said was that he would withhold remittance back to Mexico, which amounts to 24 billion dollars a year or something like that. He also said that they would indirectly pay for the wall.

But I never cared about any of that. I just wanted the wall built and the border secured. Trump was the only guy that ever actually started to get that done. That's what I cared about.

But to answer your question, no I don't believe that Trump lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I believe that he didn't get it done. I believe that he would have loved to have Mexico pay for the wall and I believe that he thought he could do it.

[CptTrips]

But to answer your question, no I don't believe that Trump lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I believe that he didn't get it done. I believe that he would have loved to have Mexico pay for the wall and I believe that he thought he could do it.

So he is delusional and ineffective, but not technically a liar?

[Brooke]

Walls and fences are effective in reducing encroachment, which is why they have been used from antiquity through today.  They continue to be widely used around military bases, airports, schools, high-end homes, the Vatican, Israel, secure storage locations, power plants, electrical substations, water-treatment plants, construction areas, pools, parking areas, ports, and so on.

Of course a wall isn't going to stop 100% of people.  Window screens don't keep out 100% of insects.  Sunscreen doesn't block out 100% of UV.  Medicine doesn't have a 100% cure rate.  They are still useful.

Hungary is an example.

In 2015, there was the Migrant Crisis in Europe ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 ).

Illegal immigration into Hungary went to over 300,000 per year (mostly through Serbian border).

They put up a fence along the border with Serbia.

Here is a chart of number of illegal immigrants per day, reported by Hungary across the time of completion of the project.

[CptTrips]

Building a 10ft fence around the mowed lawns of a gated community is a bit different that building a 30ft wall acroos 2000 miles of this: