Author Topic: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?  (Read 12845 times)

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18204
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2022, 06:52:04 AM »
With such poor energy policies I won't be surprised if we don't cause rolling blackouts ourselves in the near future

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Chris79

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1122
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2022, 11:56:50 AM »
It only takes 9 substations down to take down “the grid”

I assume you are referring to transmission interchanges.


Chuikov

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6974
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2022, 02:29:28 PM »
Yes, “substations” is broad term.     
Stations that contain transmission transformers are “sub” to the power generating stations.

Offline SIM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 671
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2022, 02:50:53 PM »
Only 9 substations?

Boy, I've really missed the memo in my job, either that or someone believes more than they know.

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6974
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2022, 03:04:44 PM »

Nine…….carefully picked.

Offline SIM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 671
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2022, 03:11:17 PM »
Again, some wants to believe more than they know.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2022, 03:31:59 PM »
the 9 is based on a paper that is 8 years old.  and it says it might not it will.

and they would have to be completely destroyed is my guess,  I don't know. I guess down to the foundation.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline SIM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 671
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2022, 03:37:23 PM »
Considering there are a couple of thousand electric utilities in the US most of which have substations. Destroying 9 substations to cause national outages is a stretch, a very long stretch.

Hurricanes slam substations yearly, ice storms, lightening storms, floods, and trees in all of the above.

People in general are very gullible when they don't know much about a subject.




Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2022, 04:21:38 PM »
just remember the steel company I used to work for,  the substation blew up, it was loud, I was cutting slabs, I turned around and started running, I was probably 100 yards from it. no fire just a flash and a bang. another guy was 100 feet away, he was coming down the crane to poop, he didn't need to poop anymore.

took I think 7 days to restore power. they used that incident to upgrade. but half the plant did have power next day.

we got a week off with pay. good thing the furnace did have back up power. it shut down immediately which means 4 or 5 hours. can't shut down a furnace in 30 seconds, those guys were scared

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline SIM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 671
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2022, 04:31:26 PM »
The problem with your story, besides not knowing when you are telling the truth, are drunk, or just stupid, is that you don't know whether the steel company actually owned the substation OR if it was owned by the local power company.

Many large companies own their substations. The local utility sells them power at that point. The local power company doesn't necessarily provide maintenance to that equipment. Neither does the power company manage that equipment.


Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6974
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2022, 04:33:22 PM »
The previous attacks targeted the cooling systems of transmission transformers.   

Had they had bigger rifles, the transformers themselves would have needed replacement.   
That means finding one and transporting them on super wide trailers with telephone line moving and removal required because they are tall and wide. 

Do you know where most substations store spare transformers?     Right next to the working transformers.      My dad worked COG (continuation of government) and his job was assessing risk and security for power grids in the Midwest.     
He’s worried.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2022, 04:37:23 PM »
The problem with your story, besides not knowing when you are telling the truth, are drunk, or just stupid, is that you don't know whether the steel company actually owned the substation OR if it was owned by the local power company.

Many large companies own their substations. The local utility sells them power at that point. The local power company doesn't necessarily provide maintenance to that equipment. Neither does the power company manage that equipment.

I maybe stupid  or drunk or high but it was inside company  property, but you are right,  I don't know who owns it, but I do know it only supplies to the steel mill.

and it's a small probably 25 yards by 25 yards. maybe less. couldn't even tell you what a substation is but that's what it was called at work

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline SIM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 671
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2022, 04:54:13 PM »
Wow, I didn't know that substations stored transformers.
What I do know is that utilities generally try to have spare equipment somewhere in their operations area. That equipment is extremely expensive! So many smaller utilities will not have the spares on hand such as larger outfits. I also know that most utilities have agreements with other companies to help each other in times where spare equipment is not readily available.

So tell me icepac, since you seem to have the assumptions, can transformers in substations be repaired on site? How can a substation cause the national grid to crumble? Can power be diverted to other circuits that allow a substation to basically be skipped?  Do you have any direct knowledge of power company operations?

I can answer each of those questions from direct experience, not from a gullible or ignorant position.



Offline Peanut1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2022, 06:41:54 PM »
I wonder if the US strategic oil reserve will have been emptied by the time of the outage.
are you aware that the SOR is not a literal thing? It's just funds for more fuel... lol

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18204
Re: National power grid down one month......Lord of the Flies?
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2022, 06:36:46 AM »
On this subject has anyone looked into solar powered generator as a viable backup?

I can't see gas generators lasting more than a week before a nice group of armed thugs takes it from you as they make way too much noise to hide

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder