Ukraine War Thread

[Eagler]

When you are called names because you are for peace something is very wrong

Eagler

[AKIron]

I know we're doing it all wrong. We should be getting paid for "protection", not paying for it. Unless....

[rabbidrabbit]

When you are called names because you are for peace something is very wrong

Eagler

Neither party wants peace on the others terms.  Therefore there is zero percent chance of actual peace in the foreseeable future.


The only side pushing the "peace" narrative is doing so to undermine support in the west for UA.  The argument that eliminating western support for UA would induce them to capitulate is observably false if you follow what they are saying with 95% plus popular support for defending their land.


So, everyone is for peace but you are pushing the "peace" narrative that leaves your position based on either ignorance of how the war is playing out or deliberately pro Russian conquest of UA.

[CptTrips]

It still amazes me that so many in a community that has a deep knowledge of WWII history, learned none of the hard lessons about appeasing an expansionist dictator.

How much better would it have been for the world, if it had taken a hard line and stopped Hitler cold in 38-39?

Give him Austria, then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.
Give him the Rhineland, then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.
Give him the Sudetenland, then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.
Give him Czechoslovakia, then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.

Sure sounds like...

Give him Chechnya,  then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.
Give him Georgia,  then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.
Give him Crimea,  then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.

Give him Ukraine,  then he'll be satisfied and we can have peace.

"Peace in Our Time..."

[CptTrips]

When you are called names because you are for peace something is very wrong

Collaborators in WWII got treated a lot worse.

[-gg-]

Russia was at peace before they invaded Ukraine.  Russia was at peace before they took Crimea and before they instigated wars in regions of Ukraine.

[CptTrips]

Putting children in concentration\re-education camps now?  For forced adoption?

All putin wants is peace.  Give peace a chance.

Russian forces have relocated at least 6,000 Ukrainian children to camps and facilities across Russia for forced adoptions and military training, according to a new report.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/14/ukraine-war-news-russia-has-relocated-more-than-6000-children.html

[Eagler]

Russia was at peace before they invaded Ukraine.  Russia was at peace before they took Crimea and before they instigated wars in regions of Ukraine.

Which occured after the 2014 US interference...you know what we then accused them of doing to us in 2016

The videos posted showed the invasion was a ploy to push Ukraine into peace terms but the west interference stopped that...why do you think that happened?

Not for war of any kind

I don't think the west wants the war to end for any reason at this point...it's become too lucrative and is one of the legs holding up the crumbling economy for many

Eagler

[CptTrips]

Which occured after the 2014 US interference...you know what we then accused them of doing to us in 2016

The videos posted showed the invasion was a ploy to push Ukraine into peace terms but the west interference stopped that...why do you think that happened?

Not for war of any kind

I don't think the west wants the war to end for any reason at this point...it's become too lucrative and is one of the legs holding up the crumbling economy for many

Eagler

I'm going to let someone else deal with this collaborator for a while.  Just not worth the keystrokes.

[Eagler]

Putting children in concentration\re-education camps now?  For forced adoption?

All putin wants is peace.  Give peace a chance.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/14/ukraine-war-news-russia-has-relocated-more-than-6000-children.html

That sounds horrible...what happened to the children's families?

Many of these war stories turn out to be just that...

I'm sure you can name a few that have gotten us into wars in the recent past

Eagler

[rabbidrabbit]

Not for war of any kind

I don't think the west wants the war to end for any reason at this point...it's become too lucrative and is one of the legs holding up the crumbling economy for many

Eagler

I'm trying to objectively explain to you why neither UA or Putin wants peace at this time.  They both have the will and ability to continue.  If both of them wanted actual peace they would do so.  They are not.  It does not matter what the "west" wants.  Therefore, you saying what you are does not line up with the observable facts of the conflict.  They do line up with the pro Russian narrative being pitched to the west to undermine western support.

[-gg-]

Which occured after the 2014 US interference...you know what we then accused them of doing to us in 2016

The videos posted showed the invasion was a ploy to push Ukraine into peace terms but the west interference stopped that...why do you think that happened?

Not for war of any kind

I don't think the west wants the war to end for any reason at this point...it's become too lucrative and is one of the legs holding up the crumbling economy for many

Eagler

Sure. Whatever you say.

Why did Russia have to "push Ukraine into peace terms" to begin with? For what?

All Russia has to do to achieve peace is to stop the war and go back home. Ukraine cannot end the war. No one but Russia can end the war, and all they have to do is go home.

Russia was never under any threat from Ukraine at any time.

People say "yeah but NATO is right on there border" - well so what? Is Poland a threat to Russia? Is Russia going to invade Poland next?


Russia is the aggressor and they initiated this war.

[Eagler]

Never said they weren't or did not start the war ..both are true...

Enjoy your war with the death and misery it brings for some..the most innocent

While the war mongers laugh all the way to the bank

I am done here...and unlike your post, it means I  will not be posting any additional responses in this thread

✌️

Eagler

[rabbidrabbit]

Never said they weren't or did not start the war ..both are true...

Enjoy your war with the death and misery it brings for some..the most innocent

While the war mongers laugh all the way to the bank

I am done here...and unlike your post, it means I  will not be posting any additional responses in this thread

✌️

Eagler

The obvious part that you keep ignoring is that UA has no choice but to fight or surrender unconditionally and Putin can decide at any point to end the war by withdrawing his invasion force. 

You keep going on about peace but the Russians want conquest and subjugation.  If you followed the actual events on the ground instead of high level one sided talking points you would be aware why the Ukrainians are so united in their opinion that their only path to peace is victory.  That has a lot to do with the systematic looting and murdering that has gone on in every community the Russians have "liberated". Faced with the choice of unconditional surrender or fight, they chose to fight with or without western support. 

The narrative that if western countries would just not support the UA people the war would be over is clearly false and is also a talking point of pro Russian propaganda sites. 

Again, your entire narrative about you being for peace and someone else who recognizes the UA situation is disingenuous.   I strongly encourage you to read the thread if you want to understand the war from both sides once you get past the propaganda talking points.

I'm not saying you are a bad person or Russian agent or anything like that.  I'm simply trying to help you see why things are the way they are and why the angle you are fixated on is not based on reality.

[sparky127]

I saw a video today of a kid being arrested for not showing up for his conscription.  Some say it was Ukrainian some say Russian.  They all look and sound the same to me...  Anyhow, lots of folks up in arms over forced conscription.

Lots of folks up in arms over forced conscription.