Was Kidd Hofer the best?

[Frodo]

Or just the most aggresive.Surely the most reckless.

Saw an account on AGW a while back that had a letter from his wingman.Hofer was supposedly shot down while on the deck covering his wingman,who was ditching.He was jumped by a 109 and shot down.

Anyone know if this account is true?

Frodo

[Jekyll]

Dunno about that.  In his book, "1000 Destroyed - the Life and Times of the 4th Fighter Group", Grover C Hall merely writes:

'How, when and where nobody ever learned, but Kid Hofer, "last of the screwball pilots", was killed over Budapest. ......
He was a vividly smiling boy who appeared to have no appreciation of danger, one who joyously romped about the deadly skies over Europe with a "Gee, ain;t the Alps pretty" and a "Let's go clobber 'em" '.

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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps

[Beurling]

Im a big fan of hoffer.

His 51 is the best looking 4th fg stang imo.

Which lw ace got him? Ive heard many names but never a for sure on who got him any ideas?

EYE

[Nath-BDP]

Hmm, well he did die over Yugoslavia on 2 July 1944...

He actually could have been shot down by Italian ANR '109s or aircraft from II./JG 77 since those were realy the only units operating around Yugoslavia at that time, they were based in Northern Italy.

The JG 77 aircraft were mostly recon aircraft, however.

Heres a link about Hofer that I stumbled upon: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/resource/hofer.html

[Frodo]

The 4th FG sight has a lot more on Hofer guys.This guy intrigue's me to no end.Read some more on him and you will find yourself asking what made this guy tick.

He would routinely go off on his own and hunt on the deck!In 1943/1944 no less!He joined the RAF/RCAF??on a whim,while on a trip to Canada.This is just the tip of the iceberg.    

There was some speculation that Hartmann may have shot him down.But I think that was pretty well disproven.From records that exsist it was probably a pilot from Yugoslavia/Hungary?Don't remember for sure.There was a good discussion on the Luftwaffe discussion forum "12 O'Clock High"
a while back about this.

Beurling I am not surprised at your interest in Hofer.I see a lot of similarities between Hofer and Beurling.    

His P51 is my wallpaper.Besides "Salem Representitive" he also flew "The Missouri KIDD"/"SHO ME" that featured a Mule with boxing gloves.The 4th FG site has some good pics of this.

Other things off the top of my head.He was from Salem,Missouri,was featured in some Coca Cola poster adds with another RAF pilot,was a member of the Eagle Squadron??,flew Spits,P47's,P51B's&D's,liked to fly wearing a football jersey.Much more!

I encourage anyone else to jump into this board.I love hearing about the little known history of the WWII air war.

Frodo


[This message has been edited by Frodo (edited 01-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Frodo (edited 01-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Frodo (edited 01-05-2001).]

[gatt]

Tumult in che clouds by J.Goodson has a very nice chapter about Kid Hoofer.

According to the author (but many disagree) "Kid" was shot down over Rumania by "Bubi" Hartmann's Bf109. Funny thing, both shared the same nickname.

Anyway, I recommend that book. A little hard to find, tho.
 

[Swager]

According to Hartmann's Book, "Blonde Knight of Germany" when Hartmann engaged the P-51's he shot down, they were in groups of 4 and 5 at high altitude and basically looking the other way!  He made no mention of attacking and destroying a lone P-51.  Wasn't "The Kid" on his own when he was shot down?  I doubt if Hartmann would of overlooked this portion of his duels over Romania.  Just a thought.

[Nath-BDP]

Quote from page 32/33 of Mustang Aces of the Eighth Air Force:

 

Bidding farewell to their charges over the coast of Yugoslavia, the main formation of fighters peeled off to fly across the Adriatic and land at Lesina, Madna and San Severo.  There they were hosted by members of the 325th FG, the famed 'Checkertails' of the Fifteenth Air Force, who were also equipped with Mustangs.  The four P-51s that had to turn back into rRussia now attempted to join the party, but only one made it to Sicily, where he crash-landed on the beach--the other two landed at the sprawling Italian mainland airfield at Foggia.  That only left the 'Kidd' who, true to form, ignored orders, went after a gaggle of BF 109s and then ran low on fuel near his destination.  Luckily for him he was intercepted by Spitfires and guided safely to Malta.  The next day he flew onto Foggia, via Catania, just in time to rejoin his group for their next sortie.

   Blakeslee had organized a combined fighter sweep from Italy, in company with the 352nd and 325th FGs, to the Budapest area, where they found around 80 Bf 109s.  The P-51s had stirred up a hornet's nest, and a series of vicious combats followed which resulted in four 4th FG aircraft being rapidly shot down.  Deacon Hivley, one of the Group's leading aces, was wounded early on in the dogfight, but still destroyed three fighters, whilst his wingman, Grover Siems, was jumped and hit by a burst of fire that straddled his cockpit.  He too sustained painful wounds, but was able to shoot a Bf 109 off Hively's tail.  It was, however, the end of the 'Deacon's' war, as he was soon rotated home.  Of the quartet from the 4th who were shot down, two became PoWs and two were killed--the seemingly indestructible Hofer was one of the latter, crashing fatally at Mostar, in Yugoslavia.  The 4th would never be the same again without the antics of the 'Kidd' from Missouri.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 01-08-2001).]

[Frodo]

Thnx guys good stuff.Nath nice quote.I haven't seen that one before.

Another of my favorite sites is "Black Cross-
Red Star.Air War over the Eastern Front" site
 www.blackcross-redstar.com

Frodo

[Guppy35]

First time to the AH boards and saw your question.

The incident is mentioned in the recently done history of the 4th FG written by Frank Speer, who was a combat pilot with them.

George Stanford is the author of the narrative.  He was a flight commander in the 335th Squadron of the 4th and agreed to take Kidd Hofer as his wingman after the Kidd was denied the chance to go to Russia with the 334th as a reprimand for some offense.

Hofer was covering Stanford when Stanford's 51 threw a rod.  Stanford was forced to crashland his 51 with Hofer apparently covering him down.  While Stanford was sitting on the ground after having gotten out of his burning 51, Hofer buzzed him and at the same time a 109 shot Hofer up. Stanford believed Hofer was too busy looking for him and forgot to watch his 6.  Hofer took no evasive action and Stanford believes he was fatally hit.  Stanford is very clear in his memory of the 109s guns going off only 50 feet over his head.

It clearly affected Stanford as he basically says that he became a minister because of it as his way to make it up to the Kidd for being such a good and loyal wingman.

I highly reccomend the book if you are a 4th FG fan.  It's called "The Debden Warbirds".  It has a large section of color nose art reproduced by Don Allen, who did much of the original 4th FG art.

Also reccomended is "Escort to Berlin" by Jeff Ethell and Gary Fry.  It has some great photos of the Kidd and his aircraft.

Finally, no 4th FG fanatic would be without
"1000 Destroyed" by Grover Hall.

Be a little wary of Jim Goodson's stuff as apparently he's known for embelishing things a bit. This comment coming from no less then Don Blakslee.

Other 4th FG books worth getting are:

The Look of Eagles by Johnny Godfrey (Hard to find, but worth it if you can)

Don Gentile  by Mark Spagnuolo.

Donald's Story  by Sandra D Merrill  (A book about Don Emerson, a 4th FG ace killed on Christmas eve day 1944.  Very moving book)

Hope this isn't too late for you to spot the new post  

Dan

BTW the Hartmann got Hofer story is pure BS. Nothing more then someone wanting to make up a good story

[Ozark]

Thank you for your post. Never too late to post on the History Board.  

Welcome to Aces High BBS.

Ozark




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332nd Flying Mongrels

"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not yelling and screaming like his passengers."

[Westy]

Thanks Dan    

Ken

[Frodo]

Great stuff!Thank you very much.

Frodo

[gatt]

THX for the advice Dan, and I agree about Goodson style. BTW, I managed to got a copy of Godfrey's book and I like it very much.