Sinking of the Tirpitz

[F4UDOA]

Much is made in AH of the unrealistic condition of F4U's and F6F's fighting against FW190's and BF109's. Except for the fact that there was an opportunity for this to happen in Norway 1944 when F6F and F4U flew cover for the sinking of the Tirpitz.

Anyone know why there was no attemp to intercept these raids? Was there any German intelligence on these birds? There were several kill's scored by British Naval pilots in F4F(Martlet's) and a couple by F6F's. What was the German intelligence thinking by not opposing the raids on there flagship?

[Nath-BDP]

I don't know very much about the subject, however, by 1944 I doubt that there were many operational LW aircraft in and around the Norwegian fuords (sp, lol) to attempt an attack an a bomber force.

Also, those F6F's and F4U's were prolly British, not American. Not that it makes a difference to your point.

[F4UDOA]

Nath,

Yes they were British, I forgot to mention that.

However I just saw a book at B&N about the German Air strength in that area and they had quite a few squadrons of 190 and 109's. In fact the British expected heavy resistance. The book just doesn't go into why the Germans never launched any fighters to intercept. Eventually those pesky Gladiators and heavy Lanc's put her on the bottom. But the German's never reacted. It was probably weather but the British were flying off of carriers? Also the Germans had radar stations in the area so they knew the Brit's were coming. I am really looking for some old German intelligence reports on the British Naval air capability, if such a thing exist.

[Dune]

Couple o' stories about Grummans flying with the Fleet Air Arm  

Martletts/Wildcats
 

- The first combat of Grumman's Martlett Mk. 1 took place on 25 December 1940, when two aircraft from No 804 squadron brought down a Ju 88A near Scapa Flow, the base of the Home Fleet. The pilots of these aircraft were Lt. L.L.N. Carver and Sub. Lt. (A) Parke.

- The majority of the Martlet Mk.IIs (54) were sent to the Far East. The first shipboard operations of the type in British service were in September 1941, on board of HMS Audacity. The Audacity was a conversion of the former German merchant vessel Hannover. It was a very small carrier with a carrier deck of 128m by 18m. It no lifts and no hangar deck; the six Wildcats were parked on the deck at all times. On its first voyage, it served as escort carrier for a convoy to Gibraltar. On 20 September, a German Fw 200 was downed when it made a bomb run at the convoy. On the next voyage, four Fw 200s fell to the guns of the Martlets. Operations from the HMS Audacity also demonstrated that the fighter cover was useful against U-boats. Audacity was sunk by an U-boat on 21 December 1941, but it had proven the usefulness of escort carriers.

- In May 1942 the No 881 and 882 squadron, on HMS Illustrious, participated in operations against (Vichy-French) Madagascar. In August 1942 No 806 on HMS Indomitable provided fighter cover for a convoy to Malta. Later in that year they participated in the landings in French North Africa.

- These British aircraft, Martlett Mk V (FM-1) flew support missions for the invasion of Southern France, Operation Dragoon, in August 1944. Later they also flew from HMS Illustrious in support of the invasion of Italy, in Salerno Bay. They also operated from HMS Victorious in West-Pacific. In January 1944, the Admiralty decided to abandon the name Martlet, and the type became the Wildcat Mk.IV in British service.

- The FM-2 was known as Martlet Mk.VI in FAA service; it was renamed Wildcat Mk.VI in January 1944. 340 were delivered. The FM-2 equipped, partially or completely, 22 squadrons, ten of which used the type operationally. Their first major action was operation Dragoon, the invasion of Southern France, in which No 881 sqn flew 180 sorties. But the Wildcat Mk.VI operated mainly in Far East.  On 26 March 1945, Mk.VIs of No 882 squadron shot down five Bf 109Gs over Norway. These were the last FAA victories of WWII.

Corsairs
 

The Royal Navy received 95 Corsair Mk.Is and 510 Mk.IIs, these being equivalent to the F4U-1 and F4U-1A or D. Goodyear-built aircraft were known as Mk.IIIs, and Brewster-built aircraft as Mk.IVs. British Corsairs had their wing tips clipped, 20cm being removed at the tips, to allow storage of the F4U on the lower decks of British carriers. The Royal Navy was the first to clear the F4U for carrier operations. It proved that the Corsair Mk.II could be operated with reasonable success even from small escort carriers. It was not without problems, one being excessive wear of the arrester wires due to the weight of the Corsair and the understandable tendency of the pilots to stay well above the stalling speed.
Fleet Air Arm units where created and equipped in the US, at Quonset Point or Brunswick, and then shipped to war theatres on board of escort carriers. The first Corsair unit of the FAA was No 1830 Sqdn, created on the first of June 1943, and soon operating from HMS Ilustrious. At the end of the war, 19 FAA squadrons operated with the F4U. British Corsairs operated both in Europe and in the Pacific. The first, and also most important European operations were the series of attacks in April, July and August 1944 on the German battleship Tirpitz, for which Corsairs provided top cover. In the Pacific the FAA Corsair also began to operate in April 1944, participating in an attack on Sabang, and later in the attack on oil refineries at Pelambang.

In July and August 1945, the Corsair squadrons No 1834 , No 1836 and No 1842 took part in a series of strikes on the Japanese mainland, near Tokyo. They operated from the carriers MHS Victorious and HMS Formidable.

The other major user of the Corsair was New Zealand. It received over 425 F4U-1A and F4U-1D models. In late 1944 the F4U equipped all twelve Pacific-based fighter units of the RNZAF. The first squadrons to use the Corsair were Nos 20 and 21, on Esperitu Santo island, operational in May 1944. In the RNZAF Corsair units, only the pilots and a small staff belonged to the squadron; aircraft and maintenance crew were grouped in a pool.

The RNZAF Corsair mainly flew close-support missions, and as a consequence did not claim a single enemy aircraft shot down. At the end of 1945, all Corsair squadrons but one (No 14) were disbanded. That last squadron was based in Japan, until the Corsair was retired from service in 1947.

All of this info comes from the site Aircraft of the World @  http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/

Hellcat
I was able to find less info about FAA Hellcats, although they seemed to achieve the most success.  I found references to 6 FAA Hellcat aces.

- The British used the F6F in significant numbers. The majority of these saw their only combat in the Pacific. However, Fleet Air Arm Hellcat I fighters achieved success against the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. Royal Navy Hellcat I's (F6F-3) were involved in escorting attacks on Tirpitz from April through August 1944. One of these missions, on May 8, 1944, the Luftwaffe came up to protect the battleship. Some #800 squadron Hellcats from HMS Emperor took on the German fighters and shot down 1 Fw-190 and two Bf-109G fighters. The Hellcats suffered one loss to the Luftwaffe and another to anti-aircraft fire. RN Sub/Lt. B. Richie got the Focke-Wulf and went on to total 6 kills, becoming one of only a few Royal Navy Hellcat aces.

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Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[BBGunn]

Not certain about this but the Tirpitz may have been the most air attacked ship in history. I think even Fairey Barracudas and Fireflys were in on it.  The Brits would not rest easy till it disappeared under the waves.

[chisel]

 http://british-forces.com/world_war2/Campaigns/Tirpitz.html

[Pongo]

One of the flight leaders from JG5(Elder?) was courtmarshaled for the sinking of the Tirpitz. He only scrambled himself and his wingman got his 200th kill but lost the BB. He died flying 262s. The story is in the osprey German Jet Aces book.

[F4UDOA]

Great info Pongo!

Thanks!

I'll check it out right away.

[BBGunn]

Thanks for the info chisel.

[Vermillion]

How interesting that you bring this up F4UDOA...... Muahhahahahahahh  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[F4UDOA]

Err, Verm.

You trying to tell me something??

Funny I saw a book on the Tirpitz the other day. The Brits made an incredible amount of sorties trying to sink that thing. Very little about any actual air combat however.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
One of the flight leaders from JG5(Elder?) was courtmarshaled for the sinking of the Tirpitz. He only scrambled himself and his wingman got his 200th kill but lost the BB. He died flying 262s. The story is in the osprey German Jet Aces book.

Nope. His name was Ehrler. Major Heinrich Ehrler.

He was given a death penalty for his failure to send III/Jg5 to defend KM Tirpitz when the ship called for help. But he was given the official pardon because its impressive combat record (its clear that the Luftwaffer was not very inclined towards killing a 201 Kill experten while they were desperately short of experienced pilots).

 He was sent to Jg7, to fly the Me262. He got 5 kills with the jet fighter, and his final tally was of 206 kills.

He was killed in his Me262 in April '45.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-10-2001).]

[Greebo]

Ehrler was made a scapegoat for some high up's incompetence.

RAF Lancasters effectively ended the threat of the Tirpitz on 15th September when a 12,000lb Tallboy bomb ripped a 40ft hole in her bow. No longer economically repairable, she was moved south from Kaa Fjord to Tromso in order to act as a floating shore battery.

The RAF were unaware of the full extent of the damage and launched more Lancaster raids, most of which were thwarted by cloud. On 12th November the weather was clear. 32 inbound Lancs were spotted by German radar and 18 JG5 FW190s were scrambled to cover the Tirpitz.

The Lancasters were stripped of their top turrets in order to carry their 12,000lb bombs and a heavy fuel load. Flying in broad daylight they would have been slaughtered by the FW190s.

Fortunately for the RAF crews, the Kriegsmarine hadn't bothered to inform the Luftwaffe of the Tirpitz's change of address, so JG5 flew off to Kaa fjord instead of Tromso. The Lancs flew in unopposed and scored several direct hits on the Tirpitz, which capsized after a magazine exploded.

The German enquiry somehow managed to blame JG5's Major Ehrler for the disaster, can you say whitewash?