Didn't it go south (bad) in Ukraine after 2014?
I don't think we can discuss that time period as it goes from war to more political but I thought that was the start of this as there has been fighting since then..
Also can any of the locals or eye witnesses state what the shape of Ukraine was before the invasion?
I was under the impression it was as corrupt as they come.
Like a little Mexico minus the Spanish speaking cartel..
But now it must be saved at all costs..
What am I missing?
Is it the Russians will take over the globe like 1930's Germany if they are not stopped?
I think that reason is losing steam among many...
Or is it just the next war we are supposed to get behind because we are told to or you are a Russian troll..
Like most other things lately, conform or you are silenced
Can we at least spend as much on our border as we do on Ukraines?
Can we try to keep our borders are secure as theirs?
Might help their war cause...right now many don't understand that discrepancy at all.
Eagler
I’m sorry but you act as if you haven’t read anything I wrote.
One last time.
> Also can any of the locals or eye witnesses state what the shape of Ukraine was before the invasion?
Similar as all Warsaw pact countries were in 1990s when the wall fell. In 2014 they tried to outs their local equivalent of Lukaszenka ( see Kremlin puppet ) and that resulted in invasion by Russian army pretending to be “freedom fighters”. Russia took a huge slice of the territory and Crimea. This is when the war started.
> I was under the impression it was as corrupt as they come.
We can talk long hours about corruption scales, how mafia like corruption compares to corporate corruption in USA, but it is quite hard to measure. Yes, Ukraine was corrupt. The question is, does that mean they deserve to be invaded and occupied? Especially by far more corrupt country like Russia? Corruption does not negate their right to self-determination. This “UA was corrupt” argument is nothing more then distraction tactic.
> But now it must be saved at all costs..
Far from all cost. If it was all costs, we would be lobbing nukes. 1.5 years after full blown invasion first US tanks are arriving at the scene. How do you figure all costs? Figures you see in “packages” are book value of stuff we mostly keep in reserve. Stuff we will likely never use and pay for its maintenance and disposal. If 1 old Bradley is worth 100k USD as aid, in reality is worth 0, even worst, it is a cost to maintain and dispose of at the later stage. So yes, number can be eye watering but they have very little to do with actual money.
> What am I missing?
Logic. You’re being fed all those “honest questions” you listed above. Questions that were purposely framed to make you choose “USA or Ukraine”. And there is no such choice. We are not 1 iota less safe due to Ukraine help. We are safer as Russia is being attrited by someone elses blood. We will save money as Eu will likely no longer need to be staffed. If Ukraine wins the war, we can probably withdraw from Europe completely, as they will be armed to the teeth for centuries to come and guarding Russians. It’s a win win for us.
> Is it the Russians will take over the globe like 1930's Germany if they are not stopped?
Look at Bucha. Read history. Russian playbook is as old as tsarist regime. Army moves in, police after them. They round up everyone educated, skilled and in any way free thinking and those people disappear. See Katyn Forest for example. Once you remove inteligencia, you favor those who cooperate, ban local language and couple centuries later you can pretend it was yours all along. Read up on history of Crimea up until 1945.
So yes, they need to be stopped. For moral reason as well as strategic ones. If we’re going to be that beacon of democracy and stuff, we need to support them. All functioning democracies today started as fragmented, corrupt regimes that improved overtime. No country started clean and “democracy” ready.
