Author Topic: Arena idea FR & RR  (Read 2014 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2023, 06:30:58 PM »
What makes you think that there is any desire from HT to 'reverse its trend' and 'fix the problems'?

Well, if not, that certainly simplifies things.

Then I guess there is no need to worry about ads, or RR arena for the players who have already been here 20 years.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 06:42:02 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2023, 07:27:21 PM »
Yes +1000%

Oh btw sorry Bug… we are screaming into the void. 


True enough.  So would you please stop screaming?  It gets annoying.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2023, 07:40:50 PM »
Yes +1000%

Oh btw sorry Bug… we are screaming into the void.  :eek:

Sorry.  I need to learn to manage expectations.  ;)

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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2023, 11:20:28 PM »

True enough.  So would you please stop screaming?  It gets annoying.

- oldman

Stop telling people to start enjoying what they have and quit getting themselves worked up over an all but dead game that is what is? Even though what it is is pretty damn good?

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Offline nopoop

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2023, 11:39:33 PM »
I like tbe 90 day free trial. Takes a week to configure your controlers two to land lol. Steam would be my choice but have no idea on cost.

Small maps in rotation. Give it a shot. I think 90 days would be the hook, up to speed and getting some kills..
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2023, 09:05:51 AM »
So to be clear… you’re openly threatening to harass another AH board member on a third party forum.

You should be banned from this one today.

Looks like he is doing the same thing the other board person is doing.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2023, 09:31:02 AM »
Looks like he is doing the same thing the other board person is doing.

Lol.  Animl is free to post on any forum he likes as far as I'm concerned.  But he might was to refraine from stalking people with sexually explicit PM.  It just makes him look (more) mentally ill.




And then later complained when someone else did it to him, "But he did it more times!"   :rofl
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 09:42:23 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2023, 10:04:38 AM »
I didn't say it was the main problem. I'm sure it's one of many factors. I just simply compared the dilemma to my experience from a different set of games in a different genre. And I don't know, you'd have to ask someone who plays DCS or IL2.

Can you answer something for me:
What is it about this forum that makes you want to stay? You don't play the game, you clearly don't like the game or the community surrounding the game. Whenever you post it's just about other competitors to AH and/or subtly bashing the game. So what is the endgame for spending all day on a forum for a game that you have zero interest participating in? Why not spend all of that time on a forum for a game in which you enjoy playing?

Clearly 100% for attention since he replies to the same persons threads as a troll and then has two pages of replies to people not addressing him. Clearly no one is listening to him but he continues to reply. He needs mental help. Put him on ignore and stroll on by.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2023, 10:36:54 AM »
Clearly 100% for attention since he replies to the same persons threads as a troll and then has two pages of replies to people not addressing him. Clearly no one is listening to him but he continues to reply. He needs mental help. Put him on ignore and stroll on by.

LoL. 

Animl has been telling me he put me on ignore for 6 months now. 

He just can't seem to make it stick.   :rofl

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Online DmonSlyr

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2023, 10:39:03 AM »
Advertising is a lot of money and with out a sure return a big gamble with a one man company.

I would look into a Steam relaunch. Add 6-12 fighters, bombers, and GVs to a "free always in the MA" as the new grab. Add to the relaunch page all the "NEW" maps recently added and coming soon, the amazing VR setup/system/play, and how both a mouse or game controller can be used to play, and rename it "Aces High! Masters of the Air!" and launch it again on Steam.

Im not sure how much coad work it would be to add the free planes in the MA, but all the other stuff is already in game. A relaunch would bring the game to a whole new set of eyes. And with a name that ties into the Hanks/Spielburg movie it could draw a bit more intrest.
You're an accounting guy, right?  So you understand ROI.

You can look at your current conversion rate based off your normal organic traffic. Lets be generous and call that a full 1%.  You can then looks at estimates of market size your ad platform might likely give you exposure to, and then look at the ad cost and make a reasonable guess to if that would be a positive or negative ROI. 

If the math suggests there is no possibility of a positive ROI based on any of the data you have, then advertising would be an expensive hobby.

In previous years when he was advertising, he may have had 12% conversion rate.  That may have given him a positive ROI.  He had reason to believe it would turn a profit to make that ad spend.

At 1% the numbers may not work.  I doubt HT has wads of cash to throw at something his data tells him can not be mathematically profitable.  He would only advertise his way into bankruptcy.

You have two obvious choices. 

1. Find cheaper advertising.
2. Improve your organic conversion rate so that you have a reasonable chance to profit from investing in ads.

The discussion of things like how FTP and other option might effect conversion rate is to find a solution to raise the conversion rate so that it is rational to try and throw ad money at it because you will then have data that suggests it will have a positive ROI.


Issue is that advertising is always a risk, but a necessary one. Is it really that expensive to have a YouTube or Rumble commercial? Depending on the channel it might be worth it for a commercial. Though, I'm not sure if HTC is large enough to handle a mass inflow of 2,000 2 weekers but we would see a huge shift in the #s and I recon that atleast 10% would subscribe for more than one month. So If 200 subscribed lets say, it would be an additional 3k per month at 36k per year if they all stayed (hypothetical). A massive influx of players would bring huge fights and bring many older players back in the game to subscribe. If we had 300 players in the MA, it would bring huge fights and I think could have a large impact overall on the game.


Issue is that there is virtually no advertising, Steam isn't really the best target market IMO because most of Steam are kids who aren't gonna pay $15 and are very nitpicky on what the game should offer. HTC just isn't big enough to handle those concerns. Marketing to the older community would actually probably be more effective, and the older community mostly still watches television and youtube videos.

BTW Fugitive, I believe I was one of the first to methion free EW planes, and have expressed it a few times. I think it would be absolutely great for many many reasons regarding game play and letting people try the game again in the MA after a while if they wanted. Unfortunately, that would also effect the bottom line in the shortrun, and not sure if monetarily its the right thing, that being said, we'd see much better #s, have much more to shoot at, create bigger fights, but it would also really encourage players to subscribe to get to fly the good planes. The thing with video games is, you have to risk a lot just to get people in the door before you make any money and with all of the "FTP" games out there, a subscription is very tough to compete without giving the players enough time to learn it. I had always thought the MA was a very tough place to learn the game to learn AH, which is why I really liked H2H for quick action fighting, but for some strange reason, team death match and FFA custom arenas just aren't picking up, I'm not sure if that's due to people not seeing the  Tabs at the top of the clipboard or what. If we could find a way to bring in players for Match Play severs it would really help new guys but I'm not sure why they aren't picking up.
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Offline oboe

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2023, 11:33:22 AM »
I'm trying to think of a way to use an existing system to make a subset of planes and vehicles available to non-paying accounts.  What about using ENY?   For example, all non-paying accounts could have access to any vehicle or plane with ENY 35 or greater.   That's quite a few vehicles and planes and includes some very fun-to-fly planes.   

ENY values have already been set for every plane and vehicle in the game, and there is already logic to disable ('red out') choices in the hangar listing based on ENY-balancing.   All Hitech would have to do is modify this logic to add an 'account type' flag to distinguish paying from non-paying accounts, and disable selections below ENY 35 for non-paying accounts - they same way they are disabled for purposes of side-balancing.   Or maybe even have them show up in the hangar listing in grey rather than red text, to be more clear about why certain vehicles are disabled.

       

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2023, 12:19:20 PM »
Issue is that advertising is always a risk, but a necessary one.

It's never necessary to lose money.

I’m not sure where you get your 10% number.  Faith?  HT stated he used to get 10-12% but is only getting 1% now.  That was at the Steam launch.  Have you seen anything that would make you think that percentage has improved?

I disagree with you about Steam.  The Steam launch was THE most targeted advertising possible.  A platform of known money spenders, known gamers, a platform where millions of dollars of IL2, DCS, MSFS are sold.  They had a page with a full description of the game to review.  Pictures, videos, etc.

If you couldn’t move the needle there, no other less targeted media is going to do better.  I still maintain you will never find a more targeted venue for exposure and if it didn’t work there, you need to fix why before bothering anywhere else.  Shrug.  Prove me wrong.  As I said, I’d love to see AH get back up to 350 players.

But HTC has always been data driven on their decision making.  Their current data tells them the conversion rate is too low to justify the ad expense.  If you can show him different data, he might come to a different conclusion.  If you truly have faith in that 10% conversion rate estimate, get the video guys here to put together a great ad and setup a Go-Fund-Me to give HTC a free ad buy and give it a try (like with a special discount code for tracking). 

If you showed him your 10% estimate is correct, he will reevaluate his decision and find the capital to keep that going.  Wouldn’t you be willing to do that to get 600 players back in the arena?

Things like youtube and Instagram, Twitter would fall into option 1.  Cheaper advertising.  But cheaper advertising is cheaper for a reason.  But if it’s free, there is no harm to HTC.  He is not having to use his kids college money to throw at ads that aren’t going to work.  That is why I have always said, fine, make user videos if you want.  That costs nothing and does no harm.  Probably won’t have much effect either. 

The problem is, AH’s charms are not readily apparent in a visual medium.  It frankly doesn’t stack up well visually against other AAA titles.  You’d have to play AH for months (and probably an event) to truly appreciate what AH has to offer beneath.  That’s why a FTP set would be so much better than a two-week trial.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 01:01:18 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2023, 07:04:29 PM »
Ya', I've just spent some time reading DCS forums.

I have never in my life of sims seen so many posts about bugs, and even hacks. I'm not exaggerating.

Great graphics, but their developers seem to be error prone. The image I get from reading all that is Swiss Cheese programming.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2023, 07:37:08 PM »
Only thing that is going to bring more players into the game now that is noticeable is to have another commercial on TV and/or youtube and Rumble. This is simply no marketing at all for this game and I still believe most haven't heard of it. It's a very niche game and the subscription prevents many people from trying the game again in the MA after a couple of months. People just aren't gonna pay $15 if they maybe want to play the game just to try it again where most of the action is.

Making quality videos, and sharing them, is your own real marketing. Commercials just don't yield the expected return. For a while many games tried it, they all seemed to have vacated that concept. If the videos look bad, the game looks bad. Why I put myself through that learning process. The easiest way to make quality videos. That also was over shadowed, as designed, by crazyville accusations.

I have different ideas about pricing. But this thread already went off the rails. Any change can draw new players, or not. My idea was meant for current players. Things like less radar, the current helps newbies adjust to SA, but the more seasoned pilots seem to prefer to tone it back.

My fleeting idea, out of a cup of morning coffee, was pretty much just more realistic arena settings, and/or disable easy mode. When we see where the main flock goes to, pretty much solves the issue of radar settings and what the masses really prefer. That's just an example. It was NOT a marketing idea. It could just have a marketing effect as by-product.

Interpretation of my post intentionally went off the rails in a 101 hijacking by a specific party.

The problem with posting anything containing "new players" is it becomes a blurring list of 1000 other ways, and the opportunity for doomsayers post the end of the world.

The problem with ME posting anything about "new players" is perceived as an ego trip by those non-players who fly other sims who stated they hope I don't succeed. Of course they don't. So, if I interpret the comments, anyone who does anything to help the game is on an ego trip, or is that selective due to chemistry conflicts? In all my days in sims, this has never been said to me until now. That speaks volumes as to the source.

It was a fleeting idea that could have possibilities to solve some complaint issues, that would not require much time from HT coding....if any at all. The concept of "both worlds can exist at the same time". An arena with settings more towards RL. Again. It was not so much about marketing, other than a possible byproduct.

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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2023, 07:14:17 AM »
This game is done, in regards to development, enjoy it as it is or don't.  It's pretty simple.

The impression Jimmy had with HT visit, and a few convos I had with HT months back, I got the same impression that development may not be over. I’m glad it wasn’t just my own imagination. Private convos are always confidential, I won’t repeat how I got the impression. Time will tell, no commitment was made. But I wouldn’t be wasting my time if I believed it is 100% dead.

I think its perfectly acceptable to have hope.

I think it was healthy for HT these last several months on several levels. Feeling appreciated during negative times can have a positive effect. We have some good peeps here. I’m honored he trusted some enough to open up to us, and me personally. We had similar experiences, mine being a bit more harsh. Its hard to listen to. Things can always be worse. The showings of love helps with coping. Life will have its way with us, however it pleases. Everything is survivable, except death. He has over cone a lot. I believe in HT. I have not fully accepted its dead, I’m aware of the human spirit and comebacks are always possible, as long as the will exist.

This is a tight community, I have doubts it can be duplicated.
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