Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[edge12674]

This is an attempt to move a discussion on the current state of AH vs. other aerial combat sims to a more appropriate forum. 

I still hope that HiTech will come out of semi-retirement and update AH, but it has been about 10 years since the last significant update.  This is not a slam on HT, the man has earned his retirement and I sincerely hope his quality of life continues to improve.  This discussion is also not intended to offend other AH players, but rather to share as consumers, what our experiences have been with our favorite hobby.

I played AH for 20 years and before that followed HiTech over from AirWarrior.  I have made many friends in AH and still keep in contact with my squadmates here. 

For me personally, I decided to try out DCS and IL-2 due to dwindling numbers, a lack of "fighter pilot aggressiveness" in the MA, and stale game play. 

Despite its age, AH still has several features I wish other sims would incorporate.  Namely a good PTO plane-set and multiplayer buffs.

Comparing DCS multiplayer (WWII only) vs. AH, I have found DCS has better flight modelling, a better damage model, better graphics, better weather/clouds, and more realistic voice comms.  The increase in fidelity has renewed my passion for aerial combat.  I have a new found appreciation for WWII pilots who not only had to fight the enemy, but also keep the weather and their own aircraft from killing them.

I have found the DCS community to be very helpful to newbies and there is a plethora of manuals and YouTube tutorials to help the learning curve.  One thing I did not expect from the community was the number of real life current and retired combat pilots that play the sim and share their training.  The PVP, PVE, and solo playablilty is also robust, so I have more freedom to play when and how I want.

What are your experiences with other aerial combat sims vs. AH?

[RichardDarkwood]

  I have a new found appreciation for WWII pilots who not only had to fight the enemy, but also keep the weather and their own aircraft from killing them.

This

[AKIron]

I've been "flying" PC sims since 1981. I don't know of any since then I haven't tried. My younger brother joined the Army about that time and flew several helicopters including the OH-58 as an aero scout and later was one of the first hundred to fly the AH-64A. He got out of the Army after Desert Storm and flew jets for American until recently when he retired. I've tried several times over the decades to get him interested in the sims I enjoyed. He was never interested until he tried DCS a couple of years ago. Now he has a Reverb G2 and is hooked. He has commented more than once about the accuracy of the sim. Of course it has flaws and the AI at the Ace level sometimes invokes black magic. But still....

[perdue3]

To me, IL-2 is better in some ways and AH is better in some ways. I love the realism of IL-2 and the stakes that seem a bit higher. But, the comfort of AH and the "arcade" nature of it is much more casual and sometimes more enjoyable. Knowing that I can log in and find a dogfight almost immediately, makes IL-2 so appealing. But, FSO and Special Events really make AH the better game for me. Obviously, the graphics and intricacy of managing the aircraft is both alluring as well as deterring depending on an individual's situation, but I think my overall flight sim life would not be complete without both.

 

[Dadtallica]

To me, IL-2 is better in some ways and AH is better in some ways. I love the realism of IL-2 and the stakes that seem a bit higher. But, the comfort of AH and the "arcade" nature of it is much more casual and sometimes more enjoyable. Knowing that I can log in and find a dogfight almost immediately, makes IL-2 so appealing. But, FSO and Special Events really make AH the better game for me. Obviously, the graphics and intricacy of managing the aircraft is both alluring as well as deterring depending on an individual's situation, but I think my overall flight sim life would not be complete without both.

 

Casual combat sim is a good way to describe AH. I have been sharing the scenario details and discussing AH in Reddit recently. The two biggest pushbacks I get are somewhat out of date graphics and the subscription model. I get the eye candy thing if that’s your jam but I like the AH sub model way better than wishing and hoping for new planes or maps one day.

As an old fart spoiled with AH bombers I had no idea how starved the flight sim world was for four engine buffs while we up them at will. Ha ha DCS and IL2 

[Eagler]

Thanks for trying to move the thread Tshark

I think the time you have for games/sims is also a factor..a large one for me

I spend about an hour a night playing at around 8pm eastern

For that hour AH gives me more entertainment and satisfaction than I get out of IL2 or DCS

Spotting,  map navigation and engine management are the issues that lower the fun factor for my sim hour

Also being hooked on vr, I find AH has implemented it best out of the 3 imo

To each their own and I find the other two graphics fantastic..but no other game will see the time I have spent here over the last 23 years

Eagler

[AKIron]

Everyone wants good graphics but that's not my primary interest. If it were I'd just fly around in MSFS. I want realistic cockpits, flight models, avionics, and weapons systems. I also like jets and helicopters. Why limit myself to one sim maker? I don't but have no bone to pick with anyone who does.

[edge12674]

Interesting Eagler.  The length of time it takes to find a good fight was one of the reasons I left AH and prefer DCS. 

I would fly around in the MA, early evenings PST, and could not get anyone to engage unless I was taking off from a vulched field.  Even then it was always just a one pass snap shot then runaway. 

With the dwindling numbers and large maps, I was having to spend more time just flying to a "possible" fight rather than using that time in a dogfight.  The numbers and map size also resulted in slower aircraft being left in the hanger.  Everyone is flying the few faster aircraft available to cover those distances.

The only place I was finding consistently good fights (similar to the glory days of AH) was on Monday Night Madness.  MNM is still one of the few things I miss from AH.

With DCS I have the option of flying a mission that takes less than an hour, having the aircraft either cold start or already on the runway ready to take off.  For solo play there are also "Instant Action" missions that start with you entering the battle area.

DCS is also going to implement a "saved game" option that allows single player missions to be stopped and resumed at any time.

I am hooked on VR and have been using the Pimax Crystal for the past six months.  That VR headset is overkill for AH, but is just beautiful with DCS.  With OpenXR being natively supported in DCS along with eye-tracking/quad-foveated-rendering the performance hit on the PC is much less.  With DCS now all I have to do is turn on the headset and start DCS.  Doesn't get much easier than that.

That is the double edge sword of AH.  It is an old game and easy to get into, because the hardware requirements are so low.  Conversely, modern hardware (such as the current crop of high end controllers) are not fully utilized and kind of a waste of money.  DCS and IL-2 take advantage of this hardware.

[Dadtallica]

I’m too old or too tired to have to deal with all that engine management. When I play IL2 I turn those settings as close to off as I can. Pretty landscapes aren’t a big deal to me either. 

For me it’s more about experience than any one nugget and that’s why AH works for me. In the normal time I play there is generally a great bunch of fellas on the rook team and we all have a pretty fun time in country chat. I prefer not to be in a squad anymore but I look for the Regulators whenever I log on and wing up with them. They are a super fun group and play the game the way I like to play it.

I think that’s the secret sauce of AH, its ability to cater to all types of flight simmers. I know people complain about “finding a fight” but I never have trouble. Plus the plane set we have access to should not be understated compared to the others. As I share the scenario details around the interweb I am discovering just how good we have it.

[Eagler]

Tshark ma has had over 100 in it each night between 8 and 9pm every evening for a while now..

Going knights with those numbers I can usually find a fight or three that make my hour in AH

I have tried a couple of solo missions in dcs and they are very pretty but not the same fun for me as a2a in AH

You are missed in ma and mnm

Eagler

[AKIron]

I often enjoy setting up severe weather conditions and using instruments to find my way home and land in a variety of aircraft. Or dark night air refueling. Some of these realistic scenarios can be as challenging as air combat. Different strokes.

[Dadtallica]

I often enjoy setting up severe weather conditions and using instruments to find my way home and land in a variety of aircraft. Or dark night air refueling. Some of these realistic scenarios can be as challenging as air combat. Different strokes.

I’m cool with all that’s. IL2 is pretty cool at night.

[RichardDarkwood]

I just learned the CP/G seat in the AH-64 and it is just plain bad assery

[AKIron]

I don't use it for anything else but the xbox controller works well for the -64 front seat. Really need reWASD to get the most from it though.

[edge12674]

Tshark ma has had over 100 in it each night between 8 and 9pm every evening for a while now..
Going knights with those numbers I can usually find a fight or three that make my hour in AH

The numbers were not the biggest issue for me (although I am not a fan of changing sides to make up for player imbalances).  For me the attitude of the majority of players changed.  The popular mantra seemed to be "never hit someone in anger unless you are absolutely sure you can get away with it".  I always preferred to fly T&B fighters.  Even when my opponents had the advantage in speed, altitude, lethality, durability, AND numbers, very few pressed an attack beyond one slashing pass then running home.  Nothing wrong with a slashing attack, but then extend and re-engage.

I’m too old or too tired to have to deal with all that engine management. When I play IL2 I turn those settings as close to off as I can. Pretty landscapes aren’t a big deal to me either.

I felt the same way for the longest time and it was the number one reason I avoided anything outside of AH.  However, "what one man can do, another can do" and once I delved into it I found that engine management is really not all that daunting.  A couple instruments to keep an eye on, but for the most part you set RPM and manifold pressure to "max constant" and you are good.  The engine management also gives you a little more damage control, allowing you to limp home, instead of just hoping the damage model timer doesn't go off.  Jets and helicopter engine management are a set it and forget it affair.

I also like jets and helicopters. Why limit myself to one sim maker?

I agree.  I was surprised I enjoy the jets and helicopters as much as I do.  I really enjoy the variety.  For instance yesterday, I flew with several others in co-op Apache helicopters sharing datalink targets while striking armor and SAMs.  Then later a squadmate and me flew I-16s fighting German armor, infantry, and aircraft.

I agree with Dadtallica that AH has a VERY good plane set.  The reason for this is that the aircraft models are relatively simple.  The more accurate the aircraft model, the longer it takes to produce.