Main Arena Trending Down?

[Baloo]

I love this game. I love this community, which is also what is keeping this game alive...and will keep the game alive. Enough said 

[Skyyr]

This post is probably unwanted, but I'll say what anyone outside looking in can see very easily.

The average player in the MA flies like this: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=37387 (the guy had the audacity to tell me not to run after I killed him for running 4 grids). This isn't a unique situation; I have HOURS of film of this player running almost every time it's 1v1, then re-engaging literally the moment I disengage or their wingmen arrive.

I ran into two more players just like this one tonight while I was streaming. One's played for almost 2 decades and constantly posts how they love the game and can't understand why people are leaving: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=37386

These aren't the only two; I stream often and can list off tens of players that exhibit this exact same behavior. And these same players come to the forums and write massive posts about how much they care for the game and don't understand why people leave.

No one cares what players say; it's what they do. This pitiful, pathetic style of "I'll readily engage and kill other players when they're distracted and/or have no chance, but I'll run the moment it's 1v1 or otherwise fair, because I couldn't be bothered to learn any skill myself" is what has driven players away. No one who comes to a game looking for action wants to deal with such wallflower behavior. If it annoys me and requires my attention and focus (as someone who is arguably at least "average" in terms of skill and has invested time into the game), then imagine what new players and those on the bottom half of the skill curve have to deal with, especially if they have no time investment or bias for the game.

Don't get me wrong - I still kill these players routinely, but it requires actually persevering and using their own cowardice and predictability against them. But the average lesser-skilled or new player? They're just going to give up. It's stupid and a waste of time for them to try to fight players who can't hold their own and will run at the first sight of danger. Of course they're going to leave and go to some other game where they can get guaranteed action - I know I would.

It's not a "few" bad apples that have killed the gameplay (statistically speaking, that would be highly improbable); the average player's behavior here has killed the gameplay.

[hazmatt]

You

What did I do? I went back and looked at my posts and didn't see anything out of line...

[hazmatt]

For you personally, I'd think the only question is, are you having fun?  If you are having fun at 40 players, then you are having fun at 40 players.  A lot of that is a function of map and gameplay design. 
People laugh at an IL2 or DCS server with 80 players, but the server is optimized for that number to keep it fun.  Size and scaling, 2 sides vs 3.

I agree with this. With the very small maps on the normal server it's a massive furball if you get 20+ players with the air spawns so close together. Even with 4 players you get 2vs2 fights.

[hazmatt]

I read the IL-2 & WW2OL weekly....... I find it very refreshing, why? they are talking about planes, tanks and WW2 I never see anything remotely like the crap I got to Wade through in here.

CAV

LOL. I think those are boring because of exactly that. When you log on here, you have no idea of what you're going to run into lolz.

[hazmatt]

This post is probably unwanted, but I'll say what anyone outside looking in can see very easily.

The average player in the MA flies like this: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=37387 (the guy had the audacity to tell me not to run after I killed him for running 4 grids). This isn't a unique situation; I have HOURS of film of this player running almost every time it's 1v1, then re-engaging literally the moment I disengage or their wingmen arrive.

I ran into two more players just like this one tonight while I was streaming. One's played for almost 2 decades and constantly posts how they love the game and can't understand why people are leaving: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=37386

These aren't the only two; I stream often and can list off tens of players that exhibit this exact same behavior. And these same players come to the forums and write massive posts about how much they care for the game and don't understand why people leave.

No one cares what players say; it's what they do. This pitiful, pathetic style of "I'll readily engage and kill other players when they're distracted and/or have no chance, but I'll run the moment it's 1v1 or otherwise fair, because I couldn't be bothered to learn any skill myself" is what has driven players away. No one who comes to a game looking for action wants to deal with such wallflower behavior. If it annoys me and requires my attention and focus (as someone who is arguably at least "average" in terms of skill and has invested time into the game), then imagine what new players and those on the bottom half of the skill curve have to deal with, especially if they have no time investment or bias for the game.

Of course they're going to leave and go to some other game where they can get guaranteed action - I know I would.

It's not a "few" bad apples that have killed the gameplay (statistically speaking, that would be highly improbable); the average player's behavior here has killed the gameplay.

I completely agree with the comments on how the game play has changed. I don't know about the specifics as I didn't watch the films. Don't think there's a Linux based film player.

When I left it seemed that some of the squads with the biggest numbers would fly together at super high alts and only pick fights when it when they had the alt and the numbers and would run as soon as the numbers got close to fair.

I think that coupled with large maps with small numbers makes it seem that the players that are left are few and far between.

I always enjoyed flying midwar type planes at around 10k alt. Seemed that as always a good place to find a fight. When the "pickerin" started I found that if I dove from 10k to the deck that the guy that was bouncing me was usually too scared to come down to the deck if there was a 2nd threat showing in the adjacent sector.

[GasTeddy]

I think you're trying to say the right thing.  I also think you're going after the reaction, instead of the multiple sources easily seen in this very thread.

Which ones are creating hostile atmosphere? Those who write something not aggressive or insulting but someone else does not like it, or those who react like just sat on an anthill without pants, groins lubricated with honey?

I read the IL-2 & WW2OL weekly....... I find it very refreshing, why? they are talking about planes, tanks and WW2 I never see anything remotely like the crap I got to Wade through in here.

CAV

Me too. Some topics there, like "Pets of the flying community" or "Faces of the flying community" would never make it longer than few posts in here. And we certainly know why.

[Spikes]

It's not a "few" bad apples that have killed the gameplay (statistically speaking, that would be highly improbable); the average player's behavior here has killed the gameplay.

I disagree. I think the ratio of total players:players who are just here for the dogfight (a mouthful, but we'll call it that) is more or less the same as it was 5, 10, 15 years ago. The issue is with the lower numbers, it is much more apparent.

[JimmyD3]

While I’m not a fighter pilot by any stretch of the imagination, this game based on many comments, is the best overall Air Combat Sim around. I am confused.

Reading up on some of the Combat reports from WW2, Korea, and Vietnam, it appears that in real life, when the opponent has lost the advantage, retreat is SOP. That being the case, why is everyone getting so bent out of shape when an opponent runs? I mean generally speaking, running to stay alive seems logical.

This of course ignores the "smack talk" side of the issue.

[Tumor]

While I’m not a fighter pilot by any stretch of the imagination, this game based on many comments, is the best overall Air Combat Sim around. I am confused.

Reading up on some of the Combat reports from WW2, Korea, and Vietnam, it appears that in real life, when the opponent has lost the advantage, retreat is SOP. That being the case, why is everyone getting so bent out of shape when an opponent runs? I mean generally speaking, running to stay alive seems logical.

This of course ignores the "smack talk" side of the issue.

It's because AH is first & foremost a Game.  Games & Gamers... absolutely nothing surprising if you look at it from this angle.  There's just enough regarding strategy & tactics to allow one to work at feeling good about contributing to the war effort, if that's your thing.  There's a lot of room for personal jousting to make one feel good about themselves, if that's your thing.  Nothing wrong with any of it.  It is what it is.  The only real drag is people who try, sometimes for years, to force others into their own style of fun (and of course, those who abuse all of it because, well... there's just something wrong with them).

[LCADolby]

It's official, Skyyr has finally hit his prime.
Now entering the stage where I was when I used to complain about him running away from me all those many moons ago.
Enjoy it my guy, you'll want to fight everything, and nothing will want to fight you.
The frustration you feel I completely understand, you'll soon be; going no higher than 12k, flying outdated aircraft, putting the enemy on your 6 to get them to engage and wasting your time shouting into the 200 void trying to get some dweebs to stand and fight. 

[GasTeddy]

While I’m not a fighter pilot by any stretch of the imagination, this game based on many comments, is the best overall Air Combat Sim around.

It's because AH is first & foremost a Game.  Games & Gamers...

So again it's the question between sim and game, virtual pilots/tankers and gamers.

[LilMak]

It's official, Skyyr has finally hit his prime.
Now entering the stage where I was when I used to complain about him running away from me all those many moons ago.
Enjoy it my guy, you'll want to fight everything, and nothing will want to fight you.
The frustration you feel I completely understand, you'll soon be; going no higher than 12k, flying outdated aircraft, putting the enemy on your 6 to get them to engage and wasting your time shouting into the 200 void trying to get some dweebs to stand and fight. 

LOL! I Was thinking the same thing. If I had a nickel every time Skyyr and Judge ran from me throughout the years, I’d probably have a couple months worth of free subscriptions.

Still…he’s not wrong. I’ve had entire squads (I can think of two currently) run from be because I came with a little alt after taking a dump and grabbing a beer. Pretty funny/sad to watch 4-5 planes turn and dive away almost in unison for one little red icon.

[Eagler]

Many take the game way too serious imo

That is why any pilot worth a crap should not be in late war planes in ma

Should be embarrassing for them to have to feed their egos at the expense of the newbie that needs to be in a spit16 or d9..

The game could be so much better if egos were left outside it..

Eagler

[GasTeddy]

Many take the game way too serious imo

That is why any pilot worth a crap should not be in late war planes in ma

Should be embarrassing for them to have to feed their egos at the expense of the newbie that needs to be in a spit16 or d9..

The game could be so much better if egos were left outside it..

Eagler

101% agreed. But some guys are too shy to ask their physicians for a prescription of Viagra.