Question for real pilots

[Animl-AW]

 

There is no bounce in a lot of sims, even though you are maneuvering a heavy machine supported by air. Aiming is harder in AH because the flight model is better.

Scaling the stick changes the control inputs. It doesn't change the aircraft response to input. That tells you that the problem is the input. In other words, it's the pilot.  A longer stick makes fine adjustments easier but you only need that fine adjustment for part of the stick travel. Scaling the stick is a fix for it's short length.

My x52 is 16 yrs old. It went to storage in good shape, didn’t come out that way. It seems to spike more closer to center, which is very loose.  Went to usb hub, turned off LEDs and that solved a lot. Put pads under the spring to tighten it up. Its just not the same stick. In storage some kind of tacky film attacked certain kind of plastics, headset same thing, other plastics not at all. Very weird. Took the stick apart, cleaned snd re-greased. Everything I did made it better. But center stick is a nightmare. Could be magnets lost some magnetism. I dunno. Had my PC not fried from lightning I’d prolly have s virpil right now. It needs to be replaced. Its just done.

As others stated, it could just be my trim, something I don’t do anymore, but need to get back to manual CT.

[Eagler]

Plastic they use on a bunch of stuff these days likes to get that nasty sticky crap..from foscam ip cameras to usb thumb drives..

They feel like the plastic is melting ... think it's just part of the throw away and replace with new marketing ppl have been brainwashed into..

Eagler

[Animl-AW]

Plastic they use on a bunch of stuff these days likes to get that nasty sticky crap..from foscam ip cameras to usb thumb drives..

They feel like the plastic is melting ... think it's just part of the throw away and replace with new marketing ppl have been brainwashed into..

Eagler

You described it exactly. Its like it starts eating itself. All plastics decay, some dry rot.

I have a friend who is now an exe at BP fuel plant. He explained how they use a oil sludge to make certain plastics. I think its just subpar plastics should at high price. Bean counters ruin a lot of quality.

Basically, this stick needs to hit the dumpster.

[Animl-AW]

Kinda flipping around subjects. I found this video informative on choice of sticks based on gimbals. Which is the key to best sticks. x52 gimbals ware out. Plastic deterioration probably has the same effect.

[Puma44]

I'm friends on FB with Mark Berent, a Vietnam era F4 pilot, did you ever run into him in the USAF Puma?  He described similar things about the F4 in terms of fighting the Mig17,19, and even the 21.
 
Puma - the "sim which must not be named" just had a F106 mod made for it that looks excellent, haven't tried it out yet myself, but looks like a ton of work was put into it.

Gman, no Mark doesn’t sound familiar.  There has to be tens of thousand who have flow the Rhino over the years.  Plus, I’ve slept a few times since then.  Seems like anyone who has spent much time in the fighter world has had the opportunity to fly one.

That would be interesting to try the “Six” and the Rhino in that unnamed sim. 

[morfiend]

If you are using a twist rudder stick when you pull the trigger you give a slight rudder input,it’s difficult to not impart some input. I usually suggest some deadpan on the rudder axis to help reduce this unwanted input.

Open the clipboard and go to the rudder axis advanced setting,where you adjust the scaling and watch the “raw” scaling window and do some trigger pulls. You’ll notice the slider moves and if you watch the raw numbers beside the axis assignment you will see them change. This is what is causing the nose bounce.

Of course if you use rudder pedals you usually don’t have the issue,maybe some slight up and down movement as you pull the trigger but again a little deadpan will reduce or remove this. Deadpan is the center of the axis,think of it like this as you increase deadpan you increase the size of the centering circle from a dime size [as an example] to a nickel to a quarter etc. this can remove the unwanted initial movement that pulling the trigger can cause.

CT can also cause issues as it doesn’t take in consideration the use of flaps so it always has some nose up trim when flaps are deployed which you fight against and this can cause the dreaded nose bounce to happen when you’re trying to shoot the bad guy in the back.


BTW I keep all my sliders at 100% in roll axis,in pitch I have the first 3 from the left at 85,90 and 95 then the rest at 100%,for yaw [rudder] I use some scaling using the first 5 sliders starting at 60% and working up to 100% with both some deadpan and dampening as my 20 yo pedals really need to be replaced and this tends to smooth them out somewhat.


  <S>

[TryHard]

I use a mouse and always have.. never experienced nose bounce.

A mouse dweeb has to think nose bounce has got to be an E killer.

As a fellow mouse dweeb I also don't notice any nose bounce but i do remember it with the logitech twisty sticks.
My big issue flying with mouse is what do you do about the problem of using rudder controls and number pad keys at the same time for view? Track IR is probably the best way to go im assuming.

[AKIron]

Friends don't let friends use twisty sticks for rudder.

[TryHard]

Friends don't let friends use twisty sticks for rudder.

Wait till you hear the A and D keys are my keyboard are my rudder 

[The Fugitive]

Dose anyone understand the scaling setup in AH and can they explain how it really works?

I, like many before and after me have messed with the scaling system for our joysticks. While I dont really know how/why things work I mess around with the sliders and fly a few flights, them mess with them again, and repeat time and time again until I find something that "feels" good. What Id like to be able to understand is how it works and how its all tied together so I can come at it a bit more logically. Anyone can build a chair trying over and over again until they get it ok, but if you know how a ruler, level, protractor, and a square all work together you can do a better job first shot.

Dead Band we know is a "dead" space in the input of the stick. The higher the slider, the bigger the circle of "dead" space from the center of the stick out. Dead space = zero input.

Damping slows the response of the input. If it takes one second to go from 0 degrees input to full deflection with your joystick (stupid numbers I know  ), by adding damping, sliding the slider all the way up, you can slow that time down to say 5 seconds for full deflection. Is this damping over the FULL deflection of the axis? Can it be adjusted for say only a certain section of the axis? Say I want to have it slower in the fine movements as Im aiming my shot (instead of jerking the stick around over correcting due to "oldman syndrome" ) and crisp 1-1 input for maneuvering in flight.

Scaling sliders, Ive seen some odd setups with ascending sliders, level sliders, descending sliders and a dozen explanations on what they do or how to use them. Setup are very personal. Some players are very heavy handed (ME! ME! ME!) others very smooth. I have watched films of players and they are so smooth maneuvering for a shot, you can see the "unload" and the burst cuts a plane in half. the only time I come close to that is when I sneak up on a bomber. The rest of the time when they same "cone of fire" I pretty much fill the whole cone!

What are the sliders doing? are they in effect creating a damping effect 10% of the sticks movement to input at a time? On the HTC site it says "It is recommended that you avoid setups that make large jumps in adjacent columns." So if I set the first 3 sliders low to try for a slower input for fine control (if that is how it works  ) then putting the other 7 straight across the top will cause an issue, and what would that issue be?

Personally I think "nose bounce" is caused by two things in the game. First, combat trim/on. With the auto trim working to adjust all the time for speed it can put your plane out of trim when your slowing during the battle and going for your shot. As your about to fire you may be in a nose up adjustment and be forced to push over to align your shot but now the combat trim is adjusting again causing you to correct your aim bouncing your nose all over the place. Watch your film diving on a group of bombers who are sleeping. I know my nose doesnt bounce at all in that condition and cutting off a wing doesnt surprise me.

The second I believe is stick adjustment. Some players are atuned to having the sliders all the way up and are very gentle on their stick (these are the guys STILL flying with the MS Sidewinder as they never wear out their equipment  ), but Im thinking that number of players is very low. The rest of us need some sort of adjustment to our sticks. some guys either understand the setup, or just hit it right by luck. The rest of us stumble along poking and tweaking it forever never getting that "optimum" setup.

For me Id like to have my rudder movement smooth but not so quick that I can spin a 109 to reverse flight by hitting them full......
my X, and Y axies slow and steady when lining up for a shot but still responsive enough to make a zero dance the Cha-Cha

So ideally Id like it if someone could give me a full explanation of the how/why of the stick scaling process. One so I can fix my scaling better, and two to add to the Help Site I have for others to be able to undstand things in this game.

[Lazerr]

As a fellow mouse dweeb I also don't notice any nose bounce but i do remember it with the logitech twisty sticks.
My big issue flying with mouse is what do you do about the problem of using rudder controls and number pad keys at the same time for view? Track IR is probably the best way to go im assuming.

My left hand is all.over the keyboard.  Lots of times I'll throw rudder more than needed and counter that input with some combination of ailerons and elevator input.

I tend to not enjoy fighting people that are really frugal with their E, just because I'm a spaz and I tend to make huge inputs on controls and bleed E like a maniac.

I enjoy the fight from below where those spastic moves plus my decent gunnery can get some cool overshoot kills.

[AKIron]

I don't know how it works in AH but damping in general does not work the same way a curve would. Dampening in electronics circuits provide a slowed response to input, not a reduced response. The effect might be the same if you are making rapid movements though. For example, in a dampening, you move an axis from zero to half it's range in one second and hold it there. A dampening effect would cause it to move from zero to half it's range in 2 seconds. If after one second you reduce the axis back to zero then the circuit would stop where it is and go slowly back to zero.

A curve simply applies less or more input for stick movement but no delay.

[Puma44]

It would be very helpful, if those who don’t experience the dreaded “nose bounce” issue would share a screen shot of how their elevator sliders are set up, just for reference.  Sharing what works for one, might be the clue for someone else, regardless of where a player’s stick manipulations rests on the scale of “kid gloves to full blown ham fist”.   

[LCADolby]

I get way more nose bounce in other sims, AH is super mild if not non-existent.

[Skyyr]

Sounds like a lot of people had a bad experience with nose bounce 🤔