WWII MP Flight Sim from 2D to 3D - Current

[Spikes]

The Combat Box server in IL2 has 84 slots I believe. I have to imagine there is no technical limit though going above that would likely start to cause problems especially if everyone is close by, which in IL2 they more or less are.

I agree that the server design/architecture of AH and IL2 is probably vastly different. AH is also a centrally hosted server whereas IL2 you can host with an old Optiplex.

[CptTrips]

The Combat Box server in IL2 has 84 slots I believe. I have to imagine there is no technical limit though going above that would likely start to cause problems especially if everyone is close by, which in IL2 they more or less are.

I agree that the server design/architecture of AH and IL2 is probably vastly different. AH is also a centrally hosted server whereas IL2 you can host with an old Optiplex.

With an appropriately scaled terrain, not spreading across 3 countries, I'd say 84 slots is more than enough for hella fun.  Different genre but a 64 player BF4 server "feels" like you are on a 300 player AH server.  Gameplay is just properly scaled and optimized make the most of 64 players.

YEah. 

IL2 and DCS were designed from the ground up to be single player with some short-lived, limited scale MP\Co-Op networking bolted on.

AH (and WT) were design from day one, from the ground up as pure MP.  In fact, really as MP only.  AH has thrown in a little bit of very limited offline practice capability, but for AH, offline is a minor sideshow that was never pursued.  The servers are completely designed differently.

I think both IL2 and DCS are looking at WT and realizing maybe they need to get better MP\MMO.  I think CP recognizes the problem and is designing from the ground to make both SP and MP first class citizens in their design.  I bet 1C pushes further into MP with their new Korea platform.

On the other hand, I'd say a lack of SP capability has hurt AH.  At least in the revenue area.

[Tumor]

Perspective.

The first years of AW was 2D graphicss that simulated 3D....

Regarding MMOL, Air Warrior is/was the trunk of the tree.  Aces High is a result of people fighting over vision, money, rights & attitudes or whatever.... and technically, it's a spin-off that beat the pants off it's conceptual origins. Aces High hit a niche at the right time and place and won the prize.  The FM felt very nice regarding realism (to me), which was a huge plus for immersion.

DCS was never intended to ever even BE a WWII Flightsim, although... one could consider it to have been bound to happen eventually.  WWII in DCS is essentially an abandoned add-on, something saved by ED as a way of taking care of paying customers.  It's taken years, but it's gaining traction with WWII.

The only real problem regarding IL-2 (GREAT BATTLES) is (for me) eye strain brought on by everything in the viewing area being mildly greyed-out.  And VR exacerbates the problem.  I'm confident there's a setting or fix or workaround (ya ya, I know, I have Reshade), I've  just never worried enough about it to take away from my Flight-Time "when" I'm in my IL-2 phase.  The plane-set IMO is sufficient, although lacking.  That said, I'm pretty sure there will never be a Flightsim that has a plane-set I'm satisfied with.  Why the hell hasn't anyone ever done a Do17??  Don't start with Wartunder... just don't.

Aces High is a "Game".  Hitech's very own words.  Albeit a Game with Flightsim tendencies... it's heavily "Gamed up" far beyond what it ever needed.  JMHO but this approach is more a pathogen regarding the current state of AH than graphics ever could be.  The approach of what is basically a Sandbox game with "do whatever you want" also invites Capt McGamer to exploit any and every aspect of "the game", inside AND outside the game.  Capt McGamer is that disease that shouts "it's MY $14.95" all the way to the ashes of what  was once a great thing.... with community support.  Kinda earned what is.  Just sayin.

IL-2 (GREAT BATTLES) is significantly more advanced than Aces High in Graphics, and quite possibly Flight Model... I'm not sure anyone who hasn't flown a few Warbirds can make a definitive statement in that department.  And no, I'm not going to consider a joyride in a P-51 as grounds for a scientific conclusion.  IL-2 is still a Game, however far less easily noticeable than Aces High, and it leans more toward the Historical, which speaks to immersion. 

DCS is a Flight-Simulation-Game, as best described by one of their Executive Producers when asked directly by 2 (former) Pilot-Youboobers (F-16/F-18) who've spent a bit of doing vids of their DCS experience.  The Immersion aspect of DCS outpaces Aces High by Light-Years.

If you're version of Immersion is limited, essentially, to numbers of players in a dogfight, then sure, AH wins.  Immersion to some includes getting in as tight as possible with RL... meaning your plane will kill you faster than the enemy if your approach to engine management is limited throttle manipulation.  Also, understanding there are consequences to shooting when you don't bother to identify what you're shooting.  Just the ATTEMPT of Historical immersion presented by IL-2 & DCS is more advanced than AH.

At the end of the day, if anything interrupted the success of Aces High... it's Wartunder.  Easily.  AH & WT are in a category, so to speak.  So are IL-2 & DCS.  There's some bleed-over... but solidly different things.

[Mayhem]

Nonsense.
I’m posting to a WWII MP base. DCS doesn’t fit that.

DCS has the WWII assets Pack

For Maps DCS has the Normandy, Channel, and Normandy 2.0 maps plus, the free Marianas map is getting a WWII update for free.

For aircraft DCS has the free TF51d (No Guns), Paid aircraft the P-47D Thunderbolt, P-51D Mustang, Mosquito FB VI, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Fw 190 A-8,  Bf 109 K-4 Kurfurst, Fw 190 D-9 Dora, and the I-16.

For Campaigns they have more than you can shake a joystick at.

DCS is also getting the F6F Hellcat, F4u Corsair, the LA7 and an Essex Carrier.

As far as Multiplayer ... My Squad has 6 DCS servers with a 7th getting set up and they compare to and can surpass paid professionally managed servers.

So not only does DCS "Fit That" it does it better and more realistic than anything else ... I just wish we could get a p38J/L that would probably bring Drano to the game. 2 weeks maybe?

However between DCS and IL2 Great Battles, IL2 does have the more complete WWII experience however, DCS still does realism and graphics better.

Now IL2:1946 is an older beast itself as it is a 2006 add-on and a compilation release of the combat flight simulation game IL-2 Sturmovik that came out in 2001 and it includes Pacific Fighters that Came out in 2004.

So if you are comparing AHIII to IL2:1946  "IL-2 graphics are not much better than AH3." than  you are comparing 2001-2006 graphics to 2015 graphics that came out almost a decade later. That doesn't make Aces High III look to good IMHO and you probably shouldn't bring it up if your trying to promote Aces High.

This thread should probably be in the O'Club.

[CptTrips]

This thread should probably be in the O'Club.

Agreed.  Especially given the heat Hazmatt got for posting in the General.

[CptTrips]

DCS has the WWII assets Pack

OK.  Don't get me started on that one.  That is just plain stupid.  Even though I got it for like $10 or something, it's the principle.  That should be just part of any WWII terrain purchase.

Mag3 is coming out with a PTO asset pack that will be free with their Corsair.  I don't know if ED is also planning their own PTO asset pack with additional stuff they plan to charge for.  Really dumb mistake IMHO.  Mag3 has the right idea.  Maybe not free generally, but if I purchase a plane or a terrain, throw it in for free.

[Mayhem]

OK.  Don't get me started on that one.  That is just plain stupid.  Even though I got it for like $10 or something, it's the principle.  That should be just part of any WWII terrain purchase.

I totally agree on that.

[Animl-AW]

Agreed.  Especially given the heat Hazmatt got for posting in the General.

Umm, again, with exception of one vid its about AH, not a thread for sim pitches.

Hazmat posted a AH cheat.

[Shuffler]

It must really be boring at those other so called flight sims....... even their own users do not want to hang out over there.

[Animl-AW]

This thread was not meant to compare, it was a mistake to put it in. The point of this thread is where we started and where MP is being lost.

It went way off subject. Its kinda to a point where one may resent they posted here. One mistake and next thing we’re on mars. <shrug>

[Animl-AW]

Regarding MMOL, Air Warrior is/was the trunk of the tree.  Aces High is a result of people fighting over vision, money, rights & attitudes or whatever.... and technically, it's a spin-off that beat the pants off it's conceptual origins. Aces High hit a niche at the right time and place and won the prize.  The FM felt very nice regarding realism (to me), which was a huge plus for immersion.

DCS was never intended to ever even BE a WWII Flightsim, although... one could consider it to have been bound to happen eventually.  WWII in DCS is essentially an abandoned add-on, something saved by ED as a way of taking care of paying customers.  It's taken years, but it's gaining traction with WWII.

The only real problem regarding IL-2 (GREAT BATTLES) is (for me) eye strain brought on by everything in the viewing area being mildly greyed-out.  And VR exacerbates the problem.  I'm confident there's a setting or fix or workaround (ya ya, I know, I have Reshade), I've  just never worried enough about it to take away from my Flight-Time "when" I'm in my IL-2 phase.  The plane-set IMO is sufficient, although lacking.  That said, I'm pretty sure there will never be a Flightsim that has a plane-set I'm satisfied with.  Why the hell hasn't anyone ever done a Do17??  Don't start with Wartunder... just don't.

Aces High is a "Game".  Hitech's very own words.  Albeit a Game with Flightsim tendencies... it's heavily "Gamed up" far beyond what it ever needed.  JMHO but this approach is more a pathogen regarding the current state of AH than graphics ever could be.  The approach of what is basically a Sandbox game with "do whatever you want" also invites Capt McGamer to exploit any and every aspect of "the game", inside AND outside the game.  Capt McGamer is that disease that shouts "it's MY $14.95" all the way to the ashes of what  was once a great thing.... with community support.  Kinda earned what is.  Just sayin.

IL-2 (GREAT BATTLES) is significantly more advanced than Aces High in Graphics, and quite possibly Flight Model... I'm not sure anyone who hasn't flown a few Warbirds can make a definitive statement in that department.  And no, I'm not going to consider a joyride in a P-51 as grounds for a scientific conclusion.  IL-2 is still a Game, however far less easily noticeable than Aces High, and it leans more toward the Historical, which speaks to immersion. 

DCS is a Flight-Simulation-Game, as best described by one of their Executive Producers when asked directly by 2 (former) Pilot-Youboobers (F-16/F-18) who've spent a bit of doing vids of their DCS experience.  The Immersion aspect of DCS outpaces Aces High by Light-Years.

If you're version of Immersion is limited, essentially, to numbers of players in a dogfight, then sure, AH wins.  Immersion to some includes getting in as tight as possible with RL... meaning your plane will kill you faster than the enemy if your approach to engine management is limited throttle manipulation.  Also, understanding there are consequences to shooting when you don't bother to identify what you're shooting.  Just the ATTEMPT of Historical immersion presented by IL-2 & DCS is more advanced than AH.

At the end of the day, if anything interrupted the success of Aces High... it's Wartunder.  Easily.  AH & WT are in a category, so to speak.  So are IL-2 & DCS.  There's some bleed-over... but solidly different things.

I struggle to find anything to disagree with here. It just wasn’t the intent of the thread.

Trips can steer a sober car driver into a ditch, rarely on subject. Totally predictable to ANYTHING I post. People who call me obsessed are obsessed. Don’t like the game don’t play it. Don’t like it or play it then why are you here? To kill it? If I spent 24/7 obsessed with a game so much I’m spewing it in other game forums I’m due for intervention.

The thread is sbout where we came from and what is being lost.

[CptTrips]

This thread was not meant to compare, it was a mistake to put it in. The point of this thread is where we started and where MP is being lost.

It went way off subject. Its kinda to a point where one may resent they posted here. One mistake and next thing we’re on mars. <shrug>

Then perhaps you should not have decided to throw in comments concerning DCS and IL2 in the very first post of your thread.

The topics are now fair game.

[Animl-AW]

It must really be boring at those other so called flight sims....... even their own users do not want to hang out over there.

ABSOLUTELY!

[Animl-AW]

Then perhaps you should not have decided to throw in comments concerning DCS and IL2 in the very first post of your thread.

The topics are now fair game.

I stated so. I don’t need your ankle biting to tell me. You knee jerked too. Had anyone  else posted it you wouldn’t pounce every dingle flaw as s catastrophe. You’re drama.

[CptTrips]

I stated so. I don’t need your ankle biting to tell me. You knee jerked too. Had anyone  else posted it you wouldn’t pounce every dingle flaw as s catastrophe. You’re drama.

There is no drama on our side. 

We are discussing the interesting topic you were kind enough to bring up.