Author Topic: Hurri IIc (Read 5678 times)

-ammo- · « **Reply #30 on:** October 17, 2000, 04:48:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funked:
Give RAM his Dora and he will forget all this.

Do you really believe that? Some folks just enjoy a good crisis.

yowser · « **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2000, 05:01:00 PM »

"BTW I know the Zero has no other choice than to HO a Fw190..."

I didn't want to be accused like others of misunderstanding you RAM so I quoted you above.
I think people are having trouble understanding your logic as to what type of plane should use the HO. The above quote makes no sense at all. A Zero can outturn a Fw190 easily and it cannot take damage, yet you recommend it should HO a Fw190??? If anybody wants the HO, it's the Fw190 not the Zero. Same thing for the Hurri...it will easily outturn the Fw190. Why would you go for the HO if you have the better turning aircraft???

yowser

[This message has been edited by yowser (edited 10-17-2000).]

funked · « **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2000, 05:10:00 PM »

Ammo the Dora would keep him busy for at least 12 hours.

The pre-emptive whining about the Hurricane IIc nearly gave me a hernia from laughing. It has a very short ammo clip and the only slower plane is the C-47. It might have some use as a defensive fighter, but only for pilots with good aim. It's lack of speed, lack of climb rate, and massive drag when turning would prevent it from being a popular fighter. Its primary role would be its historical role - fighter bomber. And it would be perfect for the upcoming Afrika Korps scenario.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-17-2000).]

Kieren · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2000, 05:19:00 PM »

Yowser-

That's pretty much the way I see it. The BnZ will only have the front-quarter opportunities for the most part, while the TnB gets some pings in ya on the egress from the pass.

If I was in a Zero facing cannons I would never go for the HO if I planned to live. I would break and reverse quickly enough to get some shots on your tail. With any luck you would lose a 'ron or elevator, and that would force you to run or die.

Karnak · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2000, 05:48:00 PM »

Yowser and Kierin,
There is no plane in AH that can reverse fast enough to get pings on a fast BnZ aircraft. If the guy attacks without enough speed, fine, reverse and kill him, but I was giving RAM enough credit not to do that. If RAM is as good as I was crediring him, he'd be long out of range by the time the Zero had his nose pointing at him.

I have been in this situation against a P-51D. He couldn't hurt me and I couldn't hurt him. I would simply avoid his passes and he'd be out of range by the time I could get my nose around. It took a Yak joining the fight on his side to end the fight. Almost got that damn Yak though.

Sisu
-Karnak

RAM · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:30:00 PM »

90% guys in MA will wait for your bounce and pull up at the same time than you dive, so giving a HO. AS I have the E I pull up and zoom to dive again. As I dive again the Zero repeats the maneouver. Etc Etc ETc ETc.

There will be a lot of people in MA wishing to go and accept a HO while diving on a lesser E Zero. I don't.

And nearly 90% lowspeed TnBning planes do this. and nearly 95% nikis do this ,making it a serious trouble for you in the meantime.(As they can zoom after you because they were so awesome planes that could avoid a bounce and zoom back with the bouncing plane,get it, kill it, and die laughing after such a BS move

).

And most Chogs given the chance would do this. And CannonHurries will do the same.

Its the nonstop HO, the endless Dweebish circle. You can't bounce a lower con because all he does is to come up and fire his cannons.

It stinks. But hey! I'm happy

Hakkuna Matata!

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-17-2000).]

Kieren · « **Reply #36 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:32:00 PM »

I said break and reverse... by that I mean I would break from level enough to evade, then immediately reverse to get the tail again. A lot of guys will try to pull the turn with you a few degrees, and that can bleed enough speed to make a reverse profitable. It can be done to most pilots, though if you know it is coming it can be evaded.

All you need do is get a ping or two in and most BnZ's wanna leave.

funked · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:42:00 PM »

RAM the idea is to get on the guy's 6.

Kieren · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:43:00 PM »

Ram, I don't want to be disrespectful, but I wonder why you don't try to rope the Zero?

You make them reach and reach and reach. Even a Zero will eventually run out of energy and be easy meat (assuming you have an energy advantage). You know you wait until their nose begins to drop down and you roll down and kill them. Hangtime, Westy, and a plethora of other pony pilots will wax you all night long using this technique. It seems extreme to say that pouncing a lower target will always wind up in an HO- I just don't see it that way.

I will say, however, if I am the low con I will drop my nose and wait for you to pounce. I will break upward, using your speed against you and gain a bit of E on you. Eventually (assuming you don't get a snapshot in) you will be more-or-less co-E and have to fight on more equal terms.

If at any time I see that an HO is in my best interest, I will certainly take it, dweeb move or not. If you dive on me from the front quarter and my guns are better than yours, I am shooting. I hit most of those passes, and in my mind that makes it a viable tactic under some circumstances.

RAM · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2000, 06:52:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieren:
I will say, however, if I am the low con I will drop my nose and wait for you to pounce. I will break upward, using your speed against you and gain a bit of E on you. Eventually (assuming you don't get a snapshot in) you will be more-or-less co-E and have to fight on more equal terms.

If at any time I see that an HO is in my best interest, I will certainly take it, dweeb move or not. If you dive on me from the front quarter and my guns are better than yours, I am shooting. I hit most of those passes, and in my mind that makes it a viable tactic under some circumstances.

So, if I dive on you, you will point your nose upwards. and if I keep on diving you'd fire at me (HO).

Each time the Zero points it nose upwards it sends a message "if you dare to dive, you will face my cannons". I refuse the HO, and as soon as I level, the Zero will level too. As soon as I try the bounce again, the Zero will do just the same. its a non-exit thing, or I accept a HO (thing that I will never do), or I can't do anything.

Curious thing I NEVER Saw a C202 doing this tactic. Why?...I think is clear.

I don't say it is skillfull or not. It is the only chances that those planes have. For me the HO is an annoying situation that I dont like. So I dislike the possibility that exists of yet another plane with 4 hispanos that will be unbounceable if not caught by surprise.

And ,before you people start jumping on me saying "why do I care what you want or not?", I ask you please to read again my previous posts. I gave a personal opinion, nothing else. if HurriIIc comes I will have to ignore attacking yet another plane unless by surprise. It's okay with me. But I dont like it and I won't remain silent saying it. Its my opinion and is as respectable as anyone else's

Forgive me for I dont like a HO arena. ANd with slow, old planes with four lasers as weapons, the only chance they have to survive is to do the vertical HO thing.

So we will end seeing nonstop HOing people. Annoying, at least for me.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-17-2000).]

Kieren · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2000, 08:23:00 PM »

It's possible you don't yet see what I mean, Ram.

You don't dive on the Zero, exactly. You make it reach for you.

When he climbs, you climb. When he rolls over, you come down again. He will be forced to keep turning to stay alive, while you have the ability to conserve E by going vertical on every pass. Eventually he will be wallowing, and yours. No amount of yanking on the stick will bring the nose around on you then.

At no time do you allow your nose to line up with his nose. There is no reason to allow it to happen, you are in control. He can't run, and if you are in your typical LW ride, he won't be able to climb away from you either. You will only have to graze him to end it, being a paper kite like it is.

I bounce every type of plane out there, and do not in any way find the hopeless HO situation you describe. A plane below me is in serious sh**, no matter what it/I is/am.

I say this as the mediocre, low-hour pilot I am. You have many more hours than me in the arena, and certainly can understand what I am saying.

Vermillion · « **Reply #41 on:** October 18, 2000, 07:02:00 AM »

RAM if your a BnZ pilot who hasn't learned how to "fake" the pass, and make the enemy plane make its defensive climb/turn into you too soon, we need to spend some time in the TA together

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

SKurj · « **Reply #42 on:** October 18, 2000, 07:10:00 AM »

Fokker Dr1

Gimme that Uber HO plane!!

SKurj

Superfly · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2000, 11:59:00 AM »

Hey all, just wanted to clear the air as it seems that some you think we're working on the Hurri IIC right now. We are not. Nate and I just said it was our favorite plane.

Now back to your regularly scheduled whine.

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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"Touch my tooter, smoocher!" - Ween
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