Author Topic: Funny one for all you jet jocks  (Read 254 times)

Offline hazmatt

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Funny one for all you jet jocks
« on: November 14, 2025, 06:38:09 AM »
I recently got a shiny new F‑5E FCU. On my first flight I took of and as normal starting climbing for alt. After a minute or two I noticed there was nobody around me. I looked around wondering where everybody was. I spotted them, all on the deck. I thought to myself. I wonder why they're all down there. A couple seconds later my RWR lost it's mind. I quickly notched and dove for the deck narrowly escaping with my life. This jet thing is a completely different animal then I'm used to.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2025, 03:54:24 PM »
I like the F-5E but the missile tone volume is too low. Can barely hear it or not at all.

I see you're referring to War Thunder.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2025, 05:15:14 PM by AKIron »
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 01:38:38 PM »
Oh boy. I think I need to go back to trainer planes.

I also recently got a Sea Harrier FRS and have had no success with it at all. Mig 21s and Mig 23s have been kicking my butt. I don't have much luck evading multiple R‑60Ms.  I got sniped by a R‑24R from a Mig 23 that must have been close to 40km away. We were fighting over desert terrain so there wasn't much cover and since I just got the plane I hadn't had been able to research the chaff pods because I haven't been able to get any kills in it. Sometimes I think this missile slinging thing isn't for me.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:46:44 PM by hazmatt »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 05:52:10 PM »
How would you compare the sensor modeling in WT with DCS?
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #4 on: Today at 01:19:05 AM »
I only flew the free planes in DCS so I don't have much experience with the sensors. I might have to pick something up during the next sale to compare. I kinda like the F5.

That said I keep the radar off in the planes that I have because they only have IR missiles and I don't want to show up on enemy RWR.

The RWR seems better then I would have expected in the planes that I've been flying. The RWR will ID the radar it will show AAA or Mig 21 or whatever right on the RWR. It will also flash launch when a launch is detected. I haven't flown the different planes enough yet to notice the differences between them and I'm still learning. If I remember correctly the RWR modeling that I'm describing was for the Sea Harrier FRS (Falklands time frame)

One of he most interesting to me is the Saab 35 Draken (from mid 50ies time frame) which was one of the first planes able to do the "cobra" The Swedes called it: "kort parad (short parry) ". I can get it into high alpha but then I flail around trying to recover lolz.

Here's a very short video of it being done properly:


 
« Last Edit: Today at 01:52:37 AM by hazmatt »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:27:33 AM »
RWR identifies aircraft type based on known characteristics of radar emanations like frequency, pulse width, interleave, etc....  Active Electronically Scanned Array sets are sophisticated enough to identify aircraft types by the number of turbine blades, exhaust density, etc....   

If you are using labels/icons to identify aircraft you're missing out. Turn that sh*t off.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:31:19 AM by AKIron »
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #6 on: Today at 09:43:28 AM »
If you are using labels/icons to identify aircraft you're missing out. Turn that sh*t off.

I asked AI to describe the differences between the RWR in the A4 and the F16. Maybe this will help clarify it:

Early A‑4 Skyhawk (A‑4B / A‑4C)
Radar: None or very basic ranging radar for guns.
RWR: Not fitted.
You get no electronic warning of radar locks or missile launches.
You must rely entirely on visual spotting.
Against radar‑guided missiles, you’re essentially blind.

🔹 Late A‑4 Skyhawk (A‑4E / A‑4F / A‑4M)
Radar: Some later models have simple air‑to‑ground or ranging radar.
RWR: Primitive systems added in later upgrades.
Can give a basic lock warning tone.
Usually non‑directional or semi‑directional — you know you’re being painted, but not exactly from where.
You may hear a tone when locked, but you don’t get bearing or radar type.
Still very limited situational awareness compared to modern jets.
You can react defensively, but you don’t know which direction the threat is coming from.

🔹 F‑16 Fighting Falcon
Radar: Advanced pulse‑Doppler radar with multiple modes (search, track, ACM).
RWR: Modern AN/ALR‑69 or equivalent.
Provides bearing, radar type, and threat level.
Distinguishes between search radar, lock, and missile guidance.
Can identify specific radar sources (fighter vs SAM).
You get a directional display showing where the radar is coming from.
You can tell if it’s a search ping, a lock, or a missile guidance signal.
You can prioritize threats and react intelligently (e.g., notch against fighter radar, dive against SAM).

✅ Bottom Line in SB
Early A‑4: No RWR → completely blind to radar threats.
Late A‑4: Primitive RWR → basic lock tone, but no direction or radar type.
F‑16: Advanced RWR → full situational awareness, bearing, radar type, and threat classification.

👉 In Simulator Battles, the difference is night and day:
The A‑4 is either blind or nearly blind to radar threats.
The F‑16 has one of the most capable electronic warfare suites in the game, giving you detailed threat awareness.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:02:01 AM »
Information is life.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #8 on: Today at 11:04:23 AM »
Information is life.

Jets are for gurlz. ;)
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:22:47 AM »
I'd be interested in your comparison between sim battles and DCS. From what I can tell it seems comparable to the Flaming Cliffs models.

The Christmas sale is coming soon and you would be able to get the F5C or around $25 on sale. There's no monthly fee so it would be a  a one time cost.

It looks like the DCS Christmas sale is a better deal and I could get all this for $25: F‑15C Eagle
Su‑27 Flanker,Su‑33 Flanker‑D,MiG‑29A/G/S Fulcrum,A‑10A Thunderbolt II,Su‑25 Frogfoot,F‑5E.

Did I read that right?!


Here's what AI says about the differences with the F5E:

Flight Model
-War Thunder: Simplified. Captures agility and energy retention; stalls, compressibility, asymmetric thrust, and drag penalties are abstracted. G‑limits enforced but less nuanced.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: Uses the same underlying Professional Flight Model as the hi‑fi F‑5E, but cockpit workload is reduced. Flight physics are realistic, but pilot interaction is simplified.

Radar System
-War Thunder: AN/APQ‑159 with simplified modes (Search, Lock, Boresight/ACM). No warm‑up, clutter, or reliability modeling.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: AN/APQ‑159 available but with Flaming Cliffs‑style interface: simplified radar controls, fewer manual adjustments, easier locks. No need to manage warm‑up or reliability quirks.

IFF
-War Thunder: Not modeled (since APQ‑159 lacked IFF)
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: Not modeled (since APQ‑159 lacked IFF).

Weapons
-War Thunder: AIM‑9J, bombs, rockets, 2× M39 cannons. IR seeker logic simplified; flare behavior abstracted; no cooling or off‑boresight limits.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: AIM‑9P/P5, bombs, rockets, 2× M39A3 cannons. Weapons employment simplified: seeker cooling and switchology abstracted, flare susceptibility modeled but less cockpit management.

Avionics & Systems
-War Thunder: Minimal cockpit interaction beyond flight controls and simplified radar scope. No electrical, hydraulic, or fuel system management.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: Non‑clickable cockpit, no cold start. Systems are abstracted; you fly with hot start and simplified avionics management.

Damage Model
-War Thunder: Abstracted hitboxes; limited subsystem modeling.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: Uses DCS damage model, but pilot has less ability to manage failures (no system switches). Subsystems can fail, but recovery options are limited.

Use Case
-War Thunder: Tuned for competitive gameplay and accessibility in Sim Battles.
-DCS Flaming Cliffs: Designed for players who want DCS flight physics without full study‑level workload. Accessible, faster to learn, but less procedural depth.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #10 on: Today at 11:30:06 AM »
I've spent very little time in WT so can't compare. I think you have the gist of Flaming Cliffs though. Thanksgiving sale right now. FC4 is not on sale though. The individual planes in FC4 are on sale.
« Last Edit: Today at 11:35:33 AM by AKIron »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #11 on: Today at 11:31:11 AM »
Jets are for gurlz. ;)

Reciprocating props are for Boomers.
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:33:55 AM »
Jets are for gurlz. ;)

Looks like the war birds will be on sale too. Maybe I'll buy both for Christmas. It works out to $4.16 a month over a year.

What's the easiest war bird to learn in? I prefer something like the German planes in IL2 because of the automated engine management..
« Last Edit: Today at 11:36:22 AM by hazmatt »

Offline AKIron

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #13 on: Today at 11:37:23 AM »
The 109 just for the challenge of taking off. Disable the rudder assist which is on by default. Oh, you said easiest, disregard. ;)
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Funny one for all you jet jocks
« Reply #14 on: Today at 01:06:37 PM »
Looks like the war birds will be on sale too. Maybe I'll buy both for Christmas. It works out to $4.16 a month over a year.

What's the easiest war bird to learn in? I prefer something like the German planes in IL2 because of the automated engine management..

Well the pony and the dora had a lot of stuff offloaded.

But if you are ever going to play MP, I'd imagine 85% of the fights will be below 5k.

Hard to beat a spit in the weeds.

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.