Author Topic: Corner speed chart  (Read 2637 times)

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2026, 09:39:56 PM »
Ok that makes a lot more sense thank you, I’m assuming based off this chart I wouldn’t be able to find the speed needed for a max sustained turn rate then

I believe I have reset it to show the sustained turn rate. Well AI did   :devil

Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2026, 11:47:43 PM »
Ok that makes a lot more sense thank you, I’m assuming based off this chart I wouldn’t be able to find the speed needed for a max sustained turn rate then

Hi GOODBYE, no that assumption is not correct, you are able to find that speed, but not on the chart. The speed needed for a max sustained turn rate is not given on the chart I posted or on Fugitives turn radius plotter for a very good reason. It's because in practice you don't need a number for that speed, it occurs naturally. You can't help but hit that speed if you hold a hard turn long enough. What my chart gives you is the turn rate and turn radius your aircraft can achieve once you get there, so that you can compare the turn rates and radius for different aircraft to see which is better.

Hopefully an example will help.

If you compare two aircraft from my chart, say the P51D and the La7. Without flaps the P51 has a best sustained turn rate of 18.4 degrees per second and a best sustained turn radius of 784ft

For the La7 the best sustained turn rate with no flaps is 20.4 degrees per second, a decisive 2 dps advantage. It also has a best sustained turn radius of 634ft. So without flaps, the La7 has a higher turn rate and a smaller radius, it has an advantage in both.

You don't need to know what the corresponding speed is for either aircraft because you always end up there. If you pull as much G as you can, in a horizontal turn until you hear the stall warning your speed will decay until it reaches the speed for the best sustained turn rate for that aircraft. You can't avoid it. It won't be the same speed for both aircraft but both will reach the correct speed if you maximise your turn. You do that by just pulling all the way to the edge of the stall and staying there. That's the easy part, trying to chase the numbers would be a disaster. You don't watch the speedo, you fucus 100% on maneuvering and SA, the speed will take care of itself. All you have to do is maximise your G load so you are feeling the buffet/horn if you are below corner velocity or blackout if you are above corner velocity.

Hope that clarifies how optimal sustained turns work in practice.

Badboy
« Last Edit: September 15, 2026, 12:00:18 AM by Badboy »
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Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2026, 11:57:13 PM »
I believe I have reset it to show the sustained turn rate. Well AI did   :devil

Nope, still appears to be broken, you can't trust AI.

If you check my earlier post I've explained what the logic error is and what web page source code needs to be edited, it should be an easy fix.

Baboy
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Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2026, 12:47:59 AM »
I’m still confused, is corner velocity the speed I need to maintain for a max sustained turn rate

Yes, you might just be confusing the terms.

Corner velocity is the speed where you can achieve the maximum turn rate, but it can't be sustained.

The maximum sustained turn rate is lower and occurs at a slower speed.

The corner velocity is defined by limitations, above corner velocity the limitation is either structural or physiological because you either blackout or damage the aircraft. The blackout is how the physiological limit is modelled in the game above corner velocity. Below corner velocity the limitation is the stall, exceed that limit and you depart from controlled flight. Corner velocity is the point where you transition between the two. If you are maximising a turn you should be close to, but not exceeding, one or the other of those conditions. 

Corner velocity is defined as the minimum speed that still allows you to pull maximum G. In Aces High maximum G means being on the edge of blackout or stall. Above corner velocity it is the blackout, below it is the stall. The blackout in Aces High is at 6g so the lowest speed at which you can just pull 6g is corner velocity. It is at the transition from blacking out to stalling.

Lastly corner velocity is a speed you can't sustain if you fly to those limits. You can only sustain corner velocity if you fly below those limits. If you want to have the best turn rate or the smallest radius flying below your limits is suboptimal. If you are managing energy because you are in the energy fighter, it might be suboptimal for rate and radius, but perfect for energy retention.

Hope that helps

Badboy
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2026, 03:15:42 AM »
I think of corner as the speed where all things considered I can get the maximum degrees per second in the movement of my nose.

The problem for me with sustained turn rate for most planes is that you're going to bleed you airspeed down to a point where wingloading and engine power and all that come into play and it's too much of a pain to figure it out with all the different planes I fly. I just try to keep my speed as close to corner as I can by putting the nose down if I have to get my speed up an if I do get jammed I'll go into a scissors or split-s if I'm slow an their fast etc. 

Personally I think rate is what wins fights because even if the guy has a better radius I can still get my nose around faster if I have more degrees per second at corner. That is until I run out of energy.  I could probably be a lot better if I studied the doghouse plots and stuff but I don't care to be the bestest. I just like to have fun...

Offline Gooss

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2026, 09:47:36 AM »
In the Aces High cockpit, corner velocity is approximated when the blackout tunnel occurs concurrently with the stall Horn. For planes like the pony and the jug, one notch of high speed flaps gives you a different corner velocity. Without looking at your speed, you can still fly at corner velocity in the blackout tunnel with the stall horn. When you’re getting the stall horn, but no blackout tunnel, lower your nose relative to the horizon and when you’re getting the blackout tunnel, but no stall Horn, raise your nose.
HONK!
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Offline HollyWood750

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2026, 02:47:57 PM »
You guys have a stall horn??

 :D

-HW

Offline hgtonyvi

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2026, 01:47:20 AM »

Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2026, 05:35:00 PM »
You guys have a stall horn??

 :D

-HW

Not sure if I'm missing an inside joke, but everyone in AH has a stall horn available if they have the volume for it turned up.

I'm not aware of an aural stall warning being standard equipment on an operational WWII fighter, but the technology certainly existed. In 1938 NACA flight-tested an artificial stall-warning system which detected a pressure change caused by local flow separation. It closed an electrical circuit and, in the flight tests, the warning device was explicitly an electric horn similar to a retractable-undercarriage warning horn.

Interestingly, later wartime Corsairs had an artificial stall-warning system, although theirs was visual rather than aural. The F4U pilot's manual describes a stall-warning light which illuminated before the stall. It was absent from early F4U-1s below serial 17930 but fitted to later aircraft.

In any case, in Aces High we definitely do have a stall horn. That isn't my terminology. HTC's own sound documentation calls it the “Stall horn”, with the sound file named stall.



There are also old AH discussions explaining why such an artificial cue makes sense in a simulator. A real pilot can physically feel buffet and acceleration through the aeroplane and his body. Sitting at a computer, we can't. The AH stall horn therefore provides an additional sensory cue for something the real pilot could feel directly.

So whether or not the terminology is historically appropriate to the actual WWII aircraft is really beside the point. If you want to max-perform an aircraft in Aces High below corner velocity, you need to recognise the AH aural stall cue. Turn it up sufficiently to hear it and learn where you are relative to the stall from the buffet/horn.

Hope that helps

Badboy
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2026, 08:45:01 PM »
Not sure if I'm missing an inside joke, but everyone in AH has a stall horn available if they have the volume for it turned up.

There are some people who fly here and who are deaf.  Lack of stall horn - or kidding on 200 - makes their efforts a bit tougher.

- oldman (who is not one of the deaf) (and sometimes wishes he was)

Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2026, 09:30:39 PM »
There are some people who fly here and who are deaf.  Lack of stall horn - or kidding on 200 - makes their efforts a bit tougher.

- oldman (who is not one of the deaf) (and sometimes wishes he was)

Hi Oldman,

Good point, and my own hearing is very bad, and gets worse as I get older.

I can still stall fight using headphones at the moment, but I have a plan for when I can't hear the stall horn any longer.

My thinking is that I should be able to adjust other sounds down once I can't hear them, accept for the stall horn, then I can use an elastic bandage to hold the cone from a small speaker (perhaps an earphone) against the skin on the back of my hand so I can feel the vibration. I hope to get similar sensory resolution from the vibrations and eventually be able to adapt.

Eventually I hope to dial in other sounds and learn to distinguish them from the vibrations alone. If I attach a larger enough speaker under my chair, it might even feel like a real stall :)

Perhaps that's not an original idea, I wonder if anyone is already doing anything like that?

Kind regards

Badboy
« Last Edit: September 21, 2026, 09:35:45 PM by Badboy »
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Offline Badboy

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2026, 11:22:03 PM »
I think of corner as the speed where all things considered I can get the maximum degrees per second in the movement of my nose.

The problem for me with sustained turn rate for most planes is that you're going to bleed you airspeed down to a point where wingloading and engine power and all that come into play and it's too much of a pain to figure it out with all the different planes I fly. I just try to keep my speed as close to corner as I can by putting the nose down if I have to get my speed up an if I do get jammed I'll go into a scissors or split-s if I'm slow an their fast etc. 

Personally I think rate is what wins fights because even if the guy has a better radius I can still get my nose around faster if I have more degrees per second at corner. That is until I run out of energy.  I could probably be a lot better if I studied the doghouse plots and stuff but I don't care to be the bestest. I just like to have fun...

Yes, a successful tactical doctrine would be to consider corner velocity as the slowest speed you want to reach during combat and if you go below corner velocity and find yourself stall fighting, you have already messed up. Speed is life!

Combat at or above corner velocity requires a pilot to prioritize energy management over immediate nose position. When you operate under that doctrine you should focus on executing vertical maneuvers and lag pursuit to preserve energy and force an opponent into a defensive disadvantage. Tactical Principles involve avoiding flat, horizontal turns in favor of oblique or vertical climbs (like a High Yo-Yo). This uses gravity to naturally slow the aircraft down toward corner velocity while storing that excess speed as potential energy (altitude) for later use.

Employ Lag Pursuit by avoiding pointing the nose directly at the target as that requires higher G loads that bleed energy too quickly. You maintain a lag pursuit flight path, allowing the turning radius to remain large while maintaining a speed advantage. That way you can force the fight into the vertical, where an aircraft with the energy advantage can exploit it while looking for an opportunity to create turning room so you can slice back in for a guns pass at corner velocity where you have the maximum turn rate to hold lead for a tracking solution.

That approach is most successful in faster aircraft with good guns. If you fly alone that approach can get you a good K/D ratio, but if you can work with a wingman and you both know wing tactics a two ship formation can be extremely difficult to beat if you choose your fights.

Of course, getting slow usually calls for an extension to regain energy and reset the fight. That's the downside. Flying that way can give you a higher K/D ratio, but it takes time and patience. Diving into a furball and stall fighting gives you more adrenaline packed fun, at the price of more frequent, but perhaps more glorious, deaths.

However, even if you have the patience and skills of a hunter, there will be times when someone surprises you from above and forces you to fight at a disadvantage. More and more pilots simply bail in that situation, but if you learn to fight from a disadvantage, equalise the E and stall fight effectively, you can sometimes turn that disadvantage into a victory.

Learn to do that and the high you get from pulling it off is well worth the effort it took to learn. Start with one aircraft, preferably your favourite high speed fighter. Learn to fight it ultra slow, and before you know it you'll be racking up kills and feeling like a teenager with an "all you can eat" pass to a cathouse.

That's worth putting in a bit of effort, don't you think?

Badboy
 
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Offline grmrpr

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2026, 04:41:36 AM »
Excellent!!

Thank you for all the contributions!  I used to innately know these things but after 15 years.....

Any case ty to all who provided the info.

<S> GrmRpr

Offline grmrpr

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2026, 05:37:27 AM »
All,


Any help on this would be appreciated!

Problem:  Horizontal turning on the deck.
Question:  Has something changed in the last 15 years?

15 Years ago when I last played I was able to snap roll - Stall 1 wing and "swap one with the other" in a flat horizontal turn on the deck to reverse a turn.  In those days if you pulled too hard in a horizontal turn you would stall a wing and auger if you didn't correct.  Hence a snap roll.  I can still snap roll at high velocity and catch it.  But now I am "running out of stick" - meaning on the deck in a fight I can be at max pull on the elevator wings vertical to the ground and not stall.  The ac just continues to turn poorly with horn blaring.  This is not how an ac would respond in real life.  My memory was in AH if you were in a turn at any speed and "pulled too hard" you would stall a wing.  As expected.  Now I can only do that at high speeds.

My TM Warthog is calibrated and dialed in.  The axis numbers are spot on and very clean.  Axis scaling is disabled.  Dampening and Deadband sliders are barely on.. Each less than 5%.

Am I missing some noob setting somewhere that protects new players or something?  Back in the day...  There were only a few players that could out turn me (Drex, Levithan, and maybe one or two others) all things being equal (ac, E(speed, alt,,))  Now everyone is beating me in slow turns even ac that shouldn't be able to.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Yes I am using flaps in turn.. The slower - more flaps which I cycle very quickly as appropriate.


Best Regards,

GrmRpr

Offline grmrpr

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Re: Corner speed chart
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2026, 05:44:48 AM »
DOH DOH DOH..

With better searching I found it.  Options / Flight / Stall Limiter...

UGH! UGH!

Now I remember!!  Getting old suxs...   Any case leaving post here maybe help others...

 :banana: :headscratch: :airplane: :old: :old: :old: :ahand