Frame 1 logs - Codename: Cactus are up

[Alpo]

 

[LilMak]

Thanks Alpo.

Gotta say fellas. This one is outa whack. 133 to 25 kills. Fly for 30 min to run into a virtual wall of fighters. Something needs to be adjusted. I mean, if it’s just gonna be a slaughterhouse at least make it interesting. Like…if the Japanese kamikaze a single ship with a dive bomber they win the frame or something.

[Devil 505]

Thanks Alpo.

Gotta say fellas. This one is outa whack. 133 to 25 kills. Fly for 30 min to run into a virtual wall of fighters. Something needs to be adjusted. I mean, if it’s just gonna be a slaughterhouse at least make it interesting. Like…if the Japanese kamikaze a single ship with a dive bomber they win the frame or something.

You do realize that the format of this FSO has the Axis on defense in Frame 3, right? That's your chance to rack up the kills.

[Shrike]

Thanks Alpo.

Gotta say fellas. This one is outa whack. 133 to 25 kills. Fly for 30 min to run into a virtual wall of fighters. Something needs to be adjusted. I mean, if it’s just gonna be a slaughterhouse at least make it interesting. Like…if the Japanese kamikaze a single ship with a dive bomber they win the frame or something.

When the flight to the fight is far, like last night, it contributes to battles which are few against many.  In theory, we could organize and group up for a major attack but after the first big attack this just doesn't happen with FSO.  Some of the bigger squads might organize but even the distance to the target will spread even these attempts as they run into a concentrated ball of blood thirsty cartoon pilots. 

[LilMak]

When the flight to the fight is far, like last night, it contributes to battles which are few against many.  In theory, we could organize and group up for a major attack but after the first big attack this just doesn't happen with FSO.  Some of the bigger squads might organize but even the distance to the target will spread even these attempts as they run into a concentrated ball of blood thirsty cartoon pilots.

Don't think it was just the distance. Hour one and hour two targets were within 5 miles of each other. Tucked neatly within a trio of early warning bases. Allies basically could (and did) park in a 10 square mile area and bounce anything that came in. They didn’t even have to move when the targets shifted in the second hour. The only way to make that frame any easier would’ve been to turn the radar on for them.

The I realize we have an overall numbers issue. But the “format” for FSO probably shouldn’t be to look at a 5:1 kill ratio in the first frame, make zero adjustments, and think “frame three is gonna be awesome”.

[AKKuya]

Public complaints are good.   I looked at the logs and the setup.

All SBD, YBM, B-25C, D3, B5, and Bettys are easy kills.  Why?  20 plus years of simulated combat has made you cartoon warriors' vast experts in virtual ACM.  Pilots flying them do the best they can.

The real question is did the CIC create effective Orders?  Follow up question is did the Squads follow or not follow the Orders?

LilMak, you should know that all plans are great on paper, but when the planes are in the air.  The plans go out the window.

Did you have a lousy night?  If so, then it does happen.  I remember many lousy nights for myself being back in the tower after 30 minutes especially before the Hour 2 portion came into being.

Blaming CMs publicly doesn't help.  Look to the CICs.  Look ro the Squads.  Look to the numbers.

All it takes is a few players to say this FSO is not for me and numbers drop.  Those Squads can't perform the assigned roles.

Go ahead and be frumpy and grumpy.  Get it out of your system.  Jump in your P-47 in the MA and shoot down a million planes to make you feel better.

You want to know what I expect out of you fighter jocks?  To take an uphill situation and go down in a blaze of glory while loudly shouting it was the best time to be had.

If I was still playing the game, I relish being on the underdog side, especially in the bomber role.  I do complain about some issues mainly flying textbook missions in early war bombers.

Pick your battles.  Pick with overall understanding.  Pick with specific issues.

My opinion on your complaint.

[Devil 505]

Don't think it was just the distance. Hour one and hour two targets were within 5 miles of each other. Tucked neatly within a trio of early warning bases. Allies basically could (and did) park in a 10 square mile area and bounce anything that came in. They didn’t even have to move when the targets shifted in the second hour. The only way to make that frame any easier would’ve been to turn the radar on for them.

The I realize we have an overall numbers issue. But the “format” for FSO probably shouldn’t be to look at a 5:1 kill ratio in the first frame, make zero adjustments, and think “frame three is gonna be awesome”.

Mak, I don't think you're looking at this objectively. Look at the placement of the Allied bases. That "trio of early warning bases" idea is just ballocks. V6 is along the direct path from the spawn to the target, the defense was going to be strong there even had V6 been owned by the Axis. A4 is directly behind the A3 target, so unless your plan was to go all the way around and attack A3 from the east, A4 will never provide advanced warning. The only actual advanced coverage was P5 to the north. Well, the Americans controlled that island (Tulagi) even before Henderson Field was operational so there's no way I can justify not having that port be Allied.

Furthermore, sorry you don't agree but I stand by this FSO format where each side spends one frame committed to the attack. I've done this type several times in the past and by-and-large the two frames are closely balanced in the end.

So what changes are you looking for? I can change the format so the Axis attacks every frame this month. How does that sound?

[LilMak]

Objectively the ratio shouldn’t be 5 to 1. Maybe if it was a later setup against hellcats that number would be ok.

[Spikes]

Objectively the ratio shouldn’t be 5 to 1. Maybe if it was a later setup against hellcats that number would be ok.

Well, there are two things at play here: design and tactics.

I've designed plenty of events where the design seems perfect and the matchups are there. I think of multiple ways I'd plan as a CIC. Then the frame comes and whoever the CIC is sends whatever directly up the middle NOE and gets slaughtered.

As stated by Shrike, usually after the first sortie all bets are off in terms of tactics. Extra sorties aren't new to FSO anymore but it's very difficult from a scoring perspective to get it right. People who enjoy bombers will keep flying in alone, unescorted, and dying. The same can happen with fighters, the attackers get strung out and die piecemeal to the defenders. This makes the scores and kills/deaths end up out of whack compared to what it probably should have been.

These type of events are also difficult to make changes to mid-event because of the different setup for each frame. We no longer have the numbers to have both sides attack and defend each frame, and some get upset at having to attack or defend for a whole month. So this is the solution - have sides take turns within the month. That also makes it a nightmare to balance because ideally you want the attacking side to have a slight numerical advantage. It sucks to attack a side at a numbers disadvantage and have to field some number of bombers.

I think any designer is willing to make changes mid-event if it is warranted and/or appropriate.

[Devil 505]

.

[LilMak]

Never mind. You guys can figure it out on your own.

[Shrike]

I agree with LilMak.  Not asking for you to do anything just sharing feedback.  Maybe for any long flights have the CiC's designate rally points for late first hour attacks and for 2nd hour attacks.  Just a thought.

[captain1ma]

airspawns?