Ai moderation?

[Animl-AW]

This subject is more about how you squint your eyes.

Frankly, fir me, taking undefended bases is boring.
I get taking basesBSCK but the act is still boring to me.

Now, dumping 2 countries of full country horde gang bang on one is putrid. At 75 vs a split 2-30 which is 37 vs 10-15. I don’t care who you are doing that 5 out of 7 nights is vomit.

Again, new limits were set fir a reason. Doesn’t matter the transparent excuses. Yes it absolutely make players log. On average GB 10-12 will log. You can’t hit critical mass when

Are Knits so frightening that needs to happen 5 of 7 nights, or worse? knits must be the mighty of AH lol

I welcome patch 8.

[-gg-]

When there's only 14 or 15 or 20 players online on a big map it's going to be boring. They've got to do something. Bombing undefended bases doesn't hurt anybody.

Limiting the number of bases that a country can take per country doesn't stop them from winning the map at all. There's literally nobody logged on to the other two countries. That's a problem not with the game or with people it's just a problem with being low numbers.

And everybody likes to do different things. I mean if you log on to a game and you see nobody on you're going to start bombing the empty bases. What else is there to do? Lol.

[Animl-AW]

When there's only 14 or 15 or 20 players online on a big map it's going to be boring. They've got to do something. Bombing undefended bases doesn't hurt anybody.

Limiting the number of bases that a country can take per country doesn't stop them from winning the map at all. There's literally nobody logged on to the other two countries. That's a problem not with the game or with people it's just a problem with being low numbers.

And everybody likes to do different things. I mean if you log on to a game and you see nobody on you're going to start bombing the empty bases. What else is there to do? Lol.

Daytime is irrelevant to me because its miles away from critical mass, which changes things

[-gg-]

I mean, yeah. And there's so few people online it's the same thing as late at night when I play sometimes. I know that you or I aren't going to ever change sides animal, because we're in a squad and our friends are on knits.

The problem that Shane is showing is just a numbers problem. There's just so few people playing the game. I don't think it's players on the bishop side coming on and purposely wanting to be a part of a horde. I mean, I don't know if they're constantly always bishops? Or do they change sides to always be on part of the horde side?

[Shane]

Playing Devil's advocate.....

There's only 18 players total in flight and 27players in total logged on.

14 players on Bish. Is that really a horde? Are they all flying together or are they spread around the map? 

These numbers are way to low for me to consider this to be a player ethos problem. There might be just one or two squads on Bish at that time and they stay Bishops just for the same reason why I stay Knits- there squad and friends are there and it's a pain in the bellybutton to switch.

In reality, the problem is simply that there are not enough players on.

Also - 14 players on one side taking bases? Who cares? What are they supposed to do? They probably want to try to take the map, and why not? How do you think maps are won? You can't realistically hyper-balance the game so that any time one side has an advantage that they must be stopped and everything equaled out.

Maps are won when one side overwhelms the others. Jusgt how it is.

But these 14 guys flying ON A BIG EMPTY MAP- do you think they're going to think , oh no. We have too many guys and we can't do this to those 3 other guys playing the game. We better all split uo and balance the sides. Let's forget about taking bases and everyone split up? Then 5 minutes later teh map is out of balance the other way because 5 more people joined or left.

You can't expect things to be "fair" when numbers are so low like that. You can't blame the players because they won't change sides.

The only thing that will fix that is more players.

There's a big map and 17 people on it. It's dynamic, not a screen shot.  What if those 14 Bish were in three different sections of the map? I've never really witnessed a giant single horde where every player on one side is all in the same area just pouding on 1 player.

Also, what is the actual harm in one side taking undefended bases? Who is being harmed? The people rolling the undefended bases are having fun and it's not hurting anyone elses fun if those bases are just sitting there with no one else on line. Who cares? The map resets. Who cares? It's not like there's anyone even logged on to care if they're losing the war.

how many days would it take for you to realize this situation lasts for hours in the morning.  Did you note lazer's comment above? Are overall morning numbers stable, or tapering off?  Are you struggling with the concept of contestability? Time of day is relevant to quite a few players' experience - you're not one of them.

Here's more wonderful chatgpt (all from the same "assessment" with my sig lines being the focal point,  lol): 
------------------

Shane is not necessarily saying that being outnumbered is inherently unfair, nor that he must always have access to his preferred aircraft. His stated concern is closer to this: what kind of contest is actually available when I log in, and what happens to the quality of that contest when numbers and collective behavior combine?

Applied to Shane, contestability operates on three levels.

Contestability in gameplay: Can a player meaningfully contest an encounter, or do numerical concentration, repeated convergence, and limited alternatives make the outcome practically predetermined? This is about the quality of the competitive opportunity, not a right to win.

Contestability in forum discourse: Can Shane challenge prevailing opinion without being dismissed merely because he is unpopular, abrasive, or associated with a controversial dispute? Conversely, can other members challenge his claims without being characterized as incapable of understanding the truth?

Contestability in moderation: Can a report, warning, or moderation judgment be reviewed against consistent standards? Can someone distinguish legitimate enforcement from collective disapproval or retaliatory reporting?

The common theme is not that Shane should always get his way. It is that neither the numerical majority in the game nor the social majority on the forum should automatically settle a question merely by virtue of being the majority.

There is a corresponding obligation on Shane: contestability must work in both directions. If he wants his claims examined independently of group opinion, he must also accept that his own claims can be tested independently of his confidence in them.

[-gg-]

I'm just saying that it's a number problem. Not a player problem. The number of people online are too low.

I don't think that people are purposely trying to be on the team that has a big horde in the morning. It's just the circumstances of being in a squad and all that is what I think. And also just the time of day that it is and when people decide to log in or out or whatever.


But what do you think the players should be doing to fix it though shane? And I'm not trying to be a pain. Like what do you think should be happening?

[Shane]

I mean, yeah. And there's so few people online it's the same thing as late at night when I play sometimes. I know that you or I aren't going to ever change sides animal, because we're in a squad and our friends are on knits.

The problem that Shane is showing is just a numbers problem. There's just so few people playing the game. I don't think it's players on the bishop side coming on and purposely wanting to be a part of a horde. I mean, I don't know if they're constantly always bishops? Or do they change sides to always be on part of the horde side?

I know have an idea, since I'm... there?

No. And actually, there are quite a few solo bish players who simply stay there. not obligated by "skwad" - why are not some of these players seeking the challenge of going against what would be more equal numbers than merely following the crowd.

There are also several morning players that play throughout the day.

The late night you refer to, you'll notice it's not so much base taking yet as there are a collection of players who like dogfighting during the 10-11pm-2am (cst) you're referring to.  I'm there, too. 

Now the wee hours where Tropic and some other knits often roll/cleanup the map, the total numbers on are less than 15, if even that.  It would be like 6 knits vs 2 bsh vs 1 rook - not much fun for that 1 rook (who was often, wait for it, 99capera.) This often sets up a fresh map around 4-6am (cst.)  What occurs next is those bish players log on with that numerical superiority (lasts for hours) where they sometimes get a reset, often not, leaving both rooks and knits in big holes to dig out of.  This results in bish getting "double-teamed" as knits/rooks take back their own bases and maybe press into bishlandia. This in turn, with the fluctuations in evening numbers, can create a double teaming on knits as a preventive for that overnight reset, or sometimes rooks or bish will be in that bucket.

So, in an ideal world, several freelance players on morning bish could go knit or rook, giving all 3 sides a chance at playing the game as intended in that time frame. 

Evening play is a different, heh, animal, with its own issues. Perhaps subsequent adjustments to ENY may resolve some of them. The biggest differing factor (to me, anyway) between morning numerical imbalances and evening double teaming is that evening numbers still allow for more contestability than morning.

[AKIron]

Now you know, the rest of the story

[-gg-]

Shane, in your screenshot where it shows the roster only two bishops out of all those online we're not in a squad.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to change sides. There are people who refuse to be in any kind of a squad but they have lots of friends on a certain country and they go on vox with them. I mean there's whatever reason.

I still say that the numbers are way too low to be expecting much. I mean that's not a crazy amount of people being on one country. 20 or 14 or even 10 or whatever it is. The problem is there's just not enough people on the other countries or overall to fill out.

The thing I despise the most is game mechanisms that force me to do something that I don't want to do. Like change sides or whatever. I mean if you think about it, at the times that you're on you're just one person and the majority of the people that are playing are having fun in the game. In my opinion, when you force people to do things it ruins their fun of the game also. So like you force people to change sides or strongly encourage them to do it through mechanisms in the game that make their game play not as fun...... Well I'm totally against that. I actually despise it.


And like I said, it's a big map. 20 people on one side spread over the big map. I mean I kind of doubt that they're all in one spot on the map where you can't go up against someone and pick off somebody out of the crowd or fight or do something. And it's just for that time that you're on. Yeah maybe it goes on for a few hours but what can you expect at that time in the morning? Everybody is asleep.


And what harm is it doing for those players to be rolling undefended bases? Tool shedding. Bombing empty buildings and taking empty bases. Who really cares?


I know for me, I would be frustrated because I would want to find a fight. But I would find a fight. I could log on and I would go pick off somebody or do something to defend a base and I would have fun still. But that's just me.

I still think that it's just a fact that there aren't enough people playing at those times. I don't think it's the people on the bishop side having any kind of responsibility for anything that's going on. It's just the way it is

[Shane]

Shane, in your screenshot where it shows the roster only two bishops out of all those online we're not in a squad.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to change sides. There are people who refuse to be in any kind of a squad but they have lots of friends on a certain country and they go on vox with them. I mean there's whatever reason.

I still say that the numbers are way too low to be expecting much. I mean that's not a crazy amount of people being on one country. 20 or 14 or even 10 or whatever it is. The problem is there's just not enough people on the other countries or overall to fill out.

The thing I despise the most is game mechanisms that force me to do something that I don't want to do. Like change sides or whatever. I mean if you think about it, at the times that you're on you're just one person and the majority of the people that are playing are having fun in the game. In my opinion, when you force people to do things it ruins their fun of the game also. So like you force people to change sides or strongly encourage them to do it through mechanisms in the game that make their game play not as fun...... Well I'm totally against that. I actually despise it.


And like I said, it's a big map. 20 people on one side spread over the big map. I mean I kind of doubt that they're all in one spot on the map where you can't go up against someone and pick off somebody out of the crowd or fight or do something. And it's just for that time that you're on. Yeah maybe it goes on for a few hours but what can you expect at that time in the morning? Everybody is asleep.


And what harm is it doing for those players to be rolling undefended bases? Tool shedding. Bombing empty buildings and taking empty bases. Who really cares?


I know for me, I would be frustrated because I would want to find a fight. But I would find a fight. I could log on and I would go pick off somebody or do something to defend a base and I would have fun still. But that's just me.

I still think that it's just a fact that there aren't enough people playing at those times. I don't think it's the people on the bishop side having any kind of responsibility for anything that's going on. It's just the way it is

Defending vs the swarm stopped having any resemblance to being fun 2+ years ago, now I just pop them from a manned gun.  I suppose I could (and have) go on my own milk runs, but they get stale, too.

I'm also seeing fatigue set in with other non-bish players; they just express it more politely. Hope they stick around.

[The Fugitive]

I agree, it is what it is. Is it good for the game? No, I don't think so but forcing players to play a way they don't want to is just as bad if not worst for the game. I have played for all three sides over the years, so I am NOT loyal to a team, but I am loyal to my squad/friends. I'm retired and could play for a few hours in the morning but being a Bish means I'd add to the problem. No I wont switch due to both the side switch timer and that its against squad rules. I don't think it's reasonable to think others should switch to even up teams.

The only reasonable solution is to get more players in the game.

[Dadtallica]

I wasn’t trying to be on a perch. I was just trying to point out that there’s never gonna be a perfect solution even if what’s happening now isn’t the best choice. It’s a unique problem at a unique time and on the list of priorities probably isn’t that important yet.

The good thing with Dale using AI now is, it’s not just all about coding and technology. Just simply talking to a chat with a history or context of what you’re discussing can providing incredible insight you may have not already thought of maybe something will come out of his interactions.

And yes, perhaps I am spoiled because I only play for one or two hours a day. It happens to be at the peak time for everyone. If ENY is high I up a G14 or a Mossie and look out you all!!! Otherwise I just go find something else to do. Pretty sure all of us will be back tomorrow.

And even though we’re never promised tomorrow, if there is one, I’ll be here.

[Shane]

I agree, it is what it is. Is it good for the game? No, I don't think so but forcing players to play a way they don't want to is just as bad if not worst for the game. I have played for all three sides over the years, so I am NOT loyal to a team, but I am loyal to my squad/friends. I'm retired and could play for a few hours in the morning but being a Bish means I'd add to the problem. No I wont switch due to both the side switch timer and that its against squad rules. I don't think it's reasonable to think others should switch to even up teams.

The only reasonable solution is to get more players in the game.

In the mornings? How? Who? Euro players are a potential gap filler, that's about it. That leaves what seems to be the early morning east coast/central population pool to draw from.

Of course, evenings would benefit from new players more and that's where they will primarily show up, but that will not resolve morning game play issues.

So, yeah, it comes down to a few willing to take on the challenge of being weaned off the persistent numerical imbalance that is evidenced daily.

One solution would be to reduce the side switch timer down to an hour or 2 instead of the current 6, this would free up those who aren't rigidly bound  ( ) by skwad "rules" where they could play those mornings and be back in time for the evening shift.

But, looking at the morning roster, I do not see that happening because... well... those who could mostly already have.  Or is there still a chance this can be resolved somehow?

[-gg-]

What could be done is that after each map reset you could force everybody to change countries. Like if they were a rook they would have to be either a bishop or a night. And if they're in a squad or whatever when they log in they will see where their squad members go before they can choose or something like that.

That would break up the squads always being on the same country in the morning or whatever.

Shane I noticed in your roster picture that it was mostly like two or three guys at most in two or three different squads that were making up all those numbers. Maybe if that was broken up somehow and they ended up on different countries that would automatically balance things.

I wouldn't care what country I'm on. I don't care what the chess piece says. So if after every map change it forced me to choose a different country I wouldn't care at all as long as I could go where my squad was at. I don't know how exactly that could work out easily though because who's going to decide and win like the first guy that logs on they're going to choose the country and then the whole squad will have to know that he's on that country to follow him.

I haven't given like a ton of thought to it or anything it just popped in my head but I think that would be a really good solution. That would at least kind of roll the dice. Or maybe it could be automatic maybe after each map change you automatically get selected to be on one of the other two countries and everybody if they're in a squad would go to the same country. That could be good.

[JimmyD3]

ANY forced Country change will make a significant number of players to quit the game. As Fugitive posted the solution is more players, not forcing players to conform to a new "mandate".